B-side magazine, Oct/Nov 91. Article by Bill Lamorey

They played at the New Music Seminar, but the Legendary Pink Dots are by
no means newcomers to the music scene. These English gents have been
together since the late seventies, making records since the early
eighties, and ignored by virtually everyone right into the nineties. Yet,
the Dots have persevered and finally seem to be receiving some of the
recognition that they've deserved from their start.

Troubles and tribulations have greeted the Dots around nearly every
corner of their musical journey. Disputes with record labels coupled with
financial hardships nearly led to the breakup of the LPDs on more than one
occasion. However, iron wills and a blinding passion for creating audio
masterpieces have held them together for their latest release, The Maria
Dimension, released domestically on Caroline records.

Though the line-up has evolved over the years, the core of the LPDs
remains intact with vocalist/lyricist/etc Edward Ka-Spel and main
keyboardist/programmer Phil "the Silverman" Harmonix. The nucleus of the
Dots is radiantly augmented with further colors by a host of other
musicians that varyingly are Pink Dot members and guest musicians. Because
of their bizarre noms de plume, it's difficult to keep up with who is who
each year.

Unlike last year, the LPDs were cleared to enter the US for an entirely
too brief tour. And to think that this band could be questioned on artist
merit merely due to the fact that they aren't mega-sellers. That's
certainly a valid judging point for allowing bands into the country. After
their diminutive fling in the US, the Dots will be doing some dates in
Canada before returning home away from the maddening crowd in the
Netherlands.

While touring in the States, the "Prophet Qa-Sepel" conducted in in-depth
conversation with B-Side.

BS: You've just completed your European Tour. How did it go?

EK: It was good generally, especially France. We didn't have enough shows
in France; we only played two. There are really quite huge crowds there.
There are quite a few French fanatics and they all think they're the only
LPD fans in France. Then they go to the show and there's like 700 people
there with them. It's a strange thing, because we don't get much
publicity, we get very little. We don't covet publicity, we never have. In
a way, we're too busy creating the music.

BS: I understand you played at the New Music Seminar in New York?

EK: Oh yeah, the New Music Seminar, a dreadful affair. It's like all these
guys from record companies walking around looking important, trying to
impress bands with how influential they are. I'm rather allergic to that.
It's our New York show, that's how I look at it and that's how we got
through it. You know, we don't really want anything to do with the
bullshit that surrounds it.

BS: How well in sales is the Maria Dimension doing?

EK: TMD sold 20,000. This is in a way, a kind of breakthrough. They all
still go, even Brighter Now (the Dots first LP) is still 1000 a yaer.
We're like a phenomenon at Play it Again Sam. They don't understand how a
band works like that. The back catalogue keeps turning over as if they
were new records.

BS: I believe that's because it's timeless music. It's not dated where it
becomes old and stale in a year.

EK: It's great to hear you say that. I mean, that's the intention. I hate
trends and fashions.

BS: That's obvious from the music. How does it feel to be a creative
artist who's made many brilliant albums and still remains relatively
obscure? Do you get angry when you see pop sensations with minimal talent
and zero creativity climbing the record sales charts?

EK: I'll be very honest about it; once I did. In the early days you think
"Why? Is there a lot of money being pumped into these bands?" Usually that
is the case. The LPDs, in a way, are quite lucky. We've been a totally
underground band for years and years and years, and we've now had some
sort of recognition. I mean the fact that we can come to America denotes
some kind of recognition. There are other bands, which I would say, are
also wonderful bands, extremely creative, who're still selling like 700
records. That's really unfair. Bands like HNAS and Nurse With Wound - I
think they're brilliant. And how many records do they sell?

BS: Right. And then you see the New Kids On The Block and similar dross
soaring the record charts.

EK: Yeah, but in ten year's time they're gonna be pretty old kids on the
block. If you're in it purely for the money, ultimately what do you get at
the end of it? You may as well become a bricklayer and own your own little
building company eventually. You'll make as much money maybe. But where's
the fun in it? Where's the joy in it? These people deny themselves joy for
a few years just to sort of get the big dollar. How do they spend it
ultimately? It's not my way really.

BS: Are your album sales enough to support the band financially now?
Didn't you have day jobs up until a few years ago?

EK: I haven't had a day job since '84. In the early days it was very, very
hard. I mean it was even difficult to buy food and things like that for a
while. We earned about $3000 a year in the beginning. Now it's well
liveable. It's not fantastic, we'd still get more if we lived off the
state in Holland, but in comparison, yah, I do what I enjoy and I'd never
complain. Say there was no band, I would have wanted to see all these
places and it would have cost me a fortune.

BS: Conceptually how does TMD tie in with your theory of the Terminal
Kaleidoscope?

EK: To be honest, I don't talk so much about the TK anymore. That's not to
say I don't believe in it, but in a way, I've explained it too many times
to a point where I felt like I was repeating a kind of formula. I think in
some ways what I've said about that is not a new theory at all. I mean,
I've heard other people that have talked in the same way, but never called
it the Terminal Kaleidoscope. Philosophers and the like, and I didn't know
that at the time. But you know, I think it is something that is very
obvious now. Which is just the acceleration of things. It seems to be a
natural process, this acceleration... and never has it been more obvious
than now really. I mean, just the dramatic changes in climate for instance.

In some ways, you can say it's scary. I don't think it's actually scary. I
don't think the human race is capable of destroying this planet, maybe
mutating it, but I think the planet is stronger than the human race.
There's a bigger hand that sort of like really pulls the strings.

BS: Is it still a goal of the Dots to transcend reality?

EK: To create our own peculiar reality, I'd say."

BS: You still use characters and settings from your own "peculiar reality"
on your records. Is TMD meant to be another chapter in your created
reality?

EK: TMD is full of songs and questions. And they're questions that I've
been asking myself for years and trying to express in lyrics form. Like
the idea of events having feelings too. I mean the deeper root is
basically, how much do we actually understand about the nature of things?
And actually, we understand so very very little. Who has successfully
explained the flight of the bumblebee yet? You know, this bumblebee flies
around and around and he doesn't have anything to stay in the air. That's
just a small thing, but it goes to show, how much do we really know. And
it's nothing compared to what there is to understand.

So you propose preposterous ideas, and they could be true. You know,
events maybe have personalities too. You know, who's to say they don't?
Who's to say the world will end in an ecological disaster when it could
just as easily turn into a giant cornflake? We don't really understand the
nature of things and the instability, or the apparent instability, of the
patterns of nature. I really think we're novices in these kinds of
questions.

BS: How would you describe the type of music that the LPDs create?

EK: What we're projecting is ourselves, it's ourselves in the finest
detail. Sort of things that you'd maybe liked to cover up as well; the
dark things, the optimistic parts... We want to make people cry, we want
to make people laugh; all mixed together, just to get to all those
emotions. Get to the parts of people they'd maybe like to cover up within
themselves. I think it's a very emotional music. That is the criteria when
we start creating. We really want to put ourselves so totally into it that
it sort of makes us feel personally uncomfortable when we hear it.

BS: So it's never meant to be background music for casual listenings?

EK: It's never meant to be background music. You know, if people are
sitting, having dinner with the LPDs on, it's better that they're silent.
You know, we'd really be annoyed if anyone talked all over it. I mean,
some people will, I think they should maybe put on something else. All
good music demands attention.

BS: TMD seems to contain less of the classical elements that pervaded many
of your previous releases.

EK: It always depends on how we feel at the time, when we're composing. I
would never say that the classical element is gone. It's likely to rear
its head strongly again. On TMD and Crushed Velvet Apocalypse, we really
wanted to make sort of total sound pictures. Really sort of like a movie
for the ears. We'll probably continue on this line on the next one too.
We're enjoying this line at the moment, trying to make it even more vivid
album by album.

BS: Are you planning a follow up single to TMD?

EK: I think that's unlikely. Singles were very much a record company idea
originally. We never actually played that game. You're supposed to take
the 12" single from the album to promote the album. We thought that's
ripping people off, they're buying it twice. It sort of caused dilemmas
between us and PIAS. They saw things in a marketing way and we saw things
in an artistic sense. Ultimately, we agreed to stop it with the singles.

BS: Well, your singles were never on any of the albums anyway.

EK: See, that was the dilemma. You know, we wanted them to be entities
within themselves. We didn't go out to make a single, we went out to make
an EP. There was an EP released with TMD in Europe. A Three inch CD. Very
nice we think, but absolutely nothing like a single. Five new songs which
were not contained on TMD. I think they should have pressed more. I think
500 are being pressed for America.

BS: The message "sing while you may" appears on nearly all of your
records. It seems fairly simple, but I gather it's very important to you.

EK: It is very important. It's to do with that Terminal Kaleidoscope idea.
But taking it further, is there any more significant period in the history
of the planet so far than now? When you look at things it's exciting
actually. Even if it's disturbing in some ways, be glad you live now.

BS: At what age did you realize that you wanted to be a musician?

EK: In a way, I always did, even when I was a little kid. It's just
something that was part of me. I come from a very unmusical family really.
No musicians at all really. I was 17 when I first tried making music. It
was ok. It was naive but it was a start. Everybody has to start somewhere.

BS: How many albums do the Pink Dots have total, including casette only
releases?

EK: I couldn't say, I have no clue. I know there's 13 albums including the
Pink Box. That doesn't include solo records, which I think is another
seven, casette-only releases, Tear Garden and other projects.

BS: Of course my next question is, how do you find time to write and
record all of this diverse material?

Ek: I think it's a natural thing. When you're really into it, and you're
working 356 days a year on it, maybe 40 or 50 songs a year is not so many.
We don't really take days off, because we enjoy it so much. If you really
enjoy things that much, you want more and more of it. It's a creative
addiction. It's the same throughout the band, we can't stop.

BS: Have you completed the album you were working on with Nurse With
Wound's Stephen Stapleton?

EK: We started work on it back in November. We've got to get together
again. Steve lives in the west of Ireland. I plan to go to Ireland for a
little while and then Steve will come to Holland. We're also going to do a
little recording together in New York. It will come together when it's
finished. It's like everything, we never release anything until we think
it's absolutely finished. It's silly to rush anything. It will be
different. As strange as spiders' kneecaps. A strangeness you can't
relate to any other strangeness.

I think Steve's one of the most talented, inventive people on this planet.
I mean, why aren't people talking about Steve Stapleton? Some people are
looked upon as pioneers, great experimentalists, and you listen to it and
think "Oh, God."

BS: When will the next Teargarden LP be available?

EK: The whole recording will take place in August. We're starting from
scratch with no preconceived ideas about it at all, which is a nice way to
enter an album. You can be totally open-minded. I'm holding myself back
from preparing some lyrics, because I want to write them at the time. It
just means I have to bite my fingers, sometimes.

BS: How did you get involved with cEVIN Key?

EK: He was writing to me for years, before Skinny Puppy even started. He
liked the LPDs and wanted some of the early casettes and things like that.
Then I was invited to Vancouver for some solo shows, and then Skinny Puppy
were in existence. We basically got together in the studio because it
seemed such a logical move. We found that we got along really great and
the friendship lasted right 'til now and continues. He's a very creative
guy himself.

BS: Are you still going to release a book with all of your lyrics and
poetry?

EK: That's still pending. I think it will take a while yet. I have to get
together on it with Elke. Sometimes it gets put on ice for a couple of
months. I want it to be good. I don't think I'll ever fit all of the
lyrics in there. It'd be like a Bible or something. I don't think anyone
needs another Bible.

BS: Rumour has it that you have one of the most impressive record
collections on this planet.

EK: That's not true really. It's been blown all out of proportion, I have
1000 records. It's actually quite small compared to a lot of people. It's
an extremely esoteric collection. I'd say three-fourth's of it you won't
find in your local record stores. I love the music, I just love the sounds
these guys make.

BS: What's your all-time favorite record?

EK: That's a hard one... Cottonwood Hill by Brainticket. That might be my
favorite.

BS: Do you have any plans to release another solo album anytime soon?

EK: Oh yeah, there's one coming out in a month or two. Tanith and the Lion
Tree. It's all me. Some parts of it are very harsh, some parts are very
beautiful, and it throws you from the harshness to the beauty in very
short spaces of time. I love it now. There was a period of time where I
wasn't sure if it worked, but I'm convinced it works now. It's a difficult
album to digest. There's a lot of information on the record in a way.

BS: Despite all of the apocalyptic visions on your album, there is also a
very light side to your music. Are you generally a happy person?

EK: Yes, I am. Why should I be depressed? I don't need to walk around
feeling dejected all the time. In some ways, I am having the best time of
my life these days. Though many of the depressing lyrics are written from
recollections of moments of despair.

BS: It's good to see that the Dots are still getting by despite Bob having
recently been claimed by cancer.

EK: Not only did I lose a fellow Dot with Bob, I lost one of my best
friends. Since it happened, my fears of death have freshly disappeared. I
mean, I still feel his presence very strongly. Up on stage, it's as though
he is there with us still. You cannot kill the spirit.

BS: What is the ultimate goal of the LPDs?

EK: There is an obscure image of perfection.  There may be moments when we
feel we are close, but we've never quite reached it. I'm not really sure
if it can be reached. In a way it would be sad if we reached it, because
there would be no more need to continue with it. I'm not really worried
though. I'm sure that we have a long way to go yet.