Multi-instrumentalist Martijn de Kleer may not be a very well-known name, but most readers of this page will have likely heard his work, either with Holland’s prolific LEGENDARY PINK DOTS, or with the elusive Dots project THE TEAR GARDEN, both featuring Martijn’s guitar, violin, drum, and bass contributions. With the very limited private release of his first solo CD, “Flow: Songs & Pieces” (which will be getting a much-deserved major release through Soleilmoon in the US soon), Martijn showed his skills at producing a modest and honest brand of experimental yet highly melodic folk music, with accents of Appalachian folk and country–quite a surprise and change from his darker work with Ka-Spel, Silverman, Moore, and company. “Flow” is a very impressive, emotional, and beautiful album that allows the listener to really get an idea of exactly what de Kleer brings to his work with the DOTS and TEAR GARDEN. GODSEND’s Todd Zachritz was so enamored of Martijn’s solo disc that this interview ensued. Interview conducted in December 2000/January 2001.

godsend: first, how did you get started making music, and how did you learn to play so many instruments?

martijn: I started out as a guitarist in a punkrock band at age 14, soon I started to play bass and drums also mainly in rock bands. The other instruments, I picked up in the past few years. All was self taught.

godsend: what led you to become involved with the Legendary Pink Dots?

martijn: i was asked to replace bob pistoor for a european tour cause he suddenly got ill. In the middle of the tour he died of lung cancer. I never got to meet him.

godsend: your solo cd, ‘flow’, shows a definite influence of folk and even country sounds. any particular artists in this vein you admire or relate to?

martijn: in folk music I admire bert janch,davy graham and nick drake as guitarists, generally I can get into any kind of music that is played with heart and soul.

godsend: your thoughts on working with the Tear Garden.

martijn: i am proud of the work I’ve done with the tear garden. Lately it has become a bit complicated to continue working with this project. Reasons are personal.

godsend: any other projects you have been involved in (besides the Legendary Pink Dots and Tear Garden)?

martijn: I’ve played in too many bands to mention, none of them did anything other than pleasing a lot of friends within the borders of holland.

godsend: how was the response to ‘flow’, looking back at it? do you plan more solo work, possibly with greater distribution?

martijn: the response to flow has been surprisingly good. I didn’t know what to expect cause my own music is completely different from what I do with the dots. I’m busy with a new CD that features me on 4 track and also leftover dots recordings with me and ryan and cevin jamming. Flow will come out on soleilmoon in february of this year and I have enough new songs lying around for a new solo CD

godsend: your closing comments or words to address to your fans (existing or future)..

martijn: thanks very much for your appreciation, hope to see you all soon, let music be a guiding light in these mysterious times.

Special thanx to Martijn for his time and attention in presenting this interview.

INTERVIEW WITH EDWARD KA-SPEL, MAY 25, 2000, AT WZBC NEWTON.

Jon Whitney: Hello, Edward, are you there?

Edward Ka-Spel: Yeah, I’m there.

JW: Oh, excellent. We finally got some juice here.

EKS: Oh, that’s good.

JW: This is Jon Whitney speaking with Edward Ka-Spel on the phone here at WZBC. Howare you doing tonight?

EKS: I’m . . . just getting ready to, um, thrill old London, Ontario, with our particular talents.

JW: So this is the second night of this tour . . .

EKS: Uh huh.

JW: How was the first night — how was your opening show?

EKS: Well, it was . . . It was hard, because it’s a new set that we’re playing and so there’s a lot of things to iron out. And we had quite a tense time in the days before it in that we arrived in Ontario but our equipment didn’t and, um, it finally turned up just a little while before the show. So it was an enormous relief for everybody, but I think the tension worked its way into all of us. So, yeah, we did it. The crowd liked it but, you know, we were quite critical of ourselves. You know, we usually know it can be a lot better.

JW: I heard a lot of positive things about your performance as well as Mark Spybey and Dead Voices on Air.

EKS: Oh, that’s excellent. Yeah, I thought Dead Voices were superb, actually.

JW: Yeah? How long has each of your sets been?

EKS: Well, um, the actual Pink Dots set tends to be around an hour at the moment – it may extend. But the encores are long, because we’ve resurrected the “9 Shades to the Circle,” and “Premonition 13,” yeah.

JW: Excellent. Yeah, the last time I saw you do those two was in 1995, on that tour.

EKS: Yeah, I mean, we missed it a lot. And then Martijn rejoined the band it was high time to bring it back. There are certain differences in the Pink Dots — to start, Martijn’s playing the violin here or there as well, so it’s — you know — he’s not the virtuoso that Patrick was, but he’s actually really very good. There’s a lot of odd little twists and turns this time, but we’re still working on live versions of the new songs from A Perfect Mystery.

JW: Yeah, how many tracks are you playing from the brand new album?

EKS: What was it . . . I think it’s 4 or 5, um, it’s 5 with a possibility of another 2 that we’re still busy with, but they’re in their very embryonic stage. So, potentially, you could play a lot, but, um, some things have to pass a certain quality area before we make some public.

JW: So how about A Perfect Mystery? What are we to expect from the brand new album?

EKS: Uh . . (chuckles) . . to be honest I think it’s the best album we’ve ever made. And I don’t say that lightly. You know, I really feel strange after 27 albums and making such a clichéd comment (mockingly), “and, yeah, but this one’s the best!”  But, you know, I honestly believe it this time. I’ve listened to it quite relentlessly since we finished it, which is rare. You know, normally I have to stay away for a month– but this one, not — there’s a certain spring in its step. There’s a joy in this album.

JW: Right. Now is, uh, Raymond — was he working on this album?

EKS: No, Frank.

JW: Oh, Frank — Frank was producing this album again. OK. We have somebody else here in the studio who has a few questions — Danny? Say hi, Danny.

EKS: Hullo, Danny.

Daniel McKernan: Hello, Edward. Can you hear me?

EKS: Uh huh.

DM: OK, just making sure. Uh, yeah, I just wanted to ask you about some of your new techniques that you were using on this album — just, like, you’ve evolved a lot over the past 27 albums, and just what we should look forward to in the sound in this one?

EKS: Now, well, there’s a lot of live playing on this album. And a lot of processing– almost three-way processing. In terms of producing, a very live sound in the studio where musicians are playing together and simply committing it straight to tape. You know, you’d have Phil working on sounds that I was making or he was making, and then you’d have Ryan processing the totality of the sound and what you get is a lot of things that never, in fact, could be repeated. And maybe that’s why I like it so much: it feels very spontaneous. And, basically, that’s what it was. You know, I’d say at least 75-80% of the album has this spontaneous feeling about it. the band wrote it together — every song, fully, playing a big part in it. And what we have is, actually, I think, quite a different sort of album.

DM: How long did it take you to record it, overall?

EKS: Ummm, I think it was two months. It always takes longer than you think it’s going to take. But, umm, it was about two months.

DM: Did Mark Spybey work with you at all on this or was he just, uh, doing his own thing?

EKS: Oh, yeah, he was busy with his own music during this album. We wanted to, but it just never worked out. Our schedules, you know. In spirit, it would have been perfect, but it just couldn’t work out.

DM: Is he going to be doing anything with you, on stage, with the Pink Dots’ set?

EKS: Ummm, we’re talking about that. I don’t know that it’ll be as early as Boston because we’re still working things out ourselves at the moment. When, I think, the set becomes settled and we know exactly what we want to play, because it always changes over the early part of a tour. And there is an idea, indeed, to maybe bring Mark into it as well, you know, for a song or something like that because it would be just a bit of a perfect marriage I think.

JW: Now let me ask about another project. You have a new Tear Garden album coming out later this year? Now how was that, recording that again?

EKS: That was a very long distance recording, really, I mean — there was a lot of jetting back and forth from L.A. to Holland. When it was first finished . . . I wasn’t completely sure, but now, I’ve heard it more, and, actually, it’s a bit like Angel Blind. It took a while, but when it got there I actually think it’s a nice album, yeah.

JW: OK. And there are still rumors about that Tear Garden tour . . .

EKS: Yeah, it should happen. Yeah, November is the plan.

DM: Will that be throughout the US and other European dates?

EKS: There’s just a handful of European shows planned. The first two are actually about 90% there, in Yena (?), Germany, and Raymond(?), Germany. That’s at the beginning of September. And, yeah, the US months is for November. About November the 4th, onwards.

JW: We also have the brand new solo album from you, Red Letters, which has been getting some great reviews as well, too. How do you decide what songs become Edward Ka-Spel solo songs and what songs become Legendary Pink Dots?

EKS: Well, Red Letters was a bit of an exception to all the others in that it was recorded over a very short space of time. In the middle of last year — I was home alone and just plowed in to making a new album, beginning to end. Because normally I’m taking bits and pieces from everywhere over a space of a couple of years and some things wind up as Pink Dots songs and others solo pieces, and there isn’t really a . . . hard and fast way of deciding. It depends on how the rest of the band maybe reacts to a piece of mine.  But all of these pieces were conceived as solo pieces and executed as solo pieces. And I think the whole thing took maybe three weeks to a month. And it’s a very very focused recording — and album I had to make, really. It very much summed up my feelings during that period.

JW: It’s a different album from a lot of your other things. A lot of new electronic things on there that I’d never heard you use before on your solo project.

EKS: Uh huh, yeah, there’s actually quite a lot of synths in now as well. And I’m busy on another solo album which goes quite far in an experimental direction.

JW: Is this that ultra-limited LP only thing that’s coming out later this year?

EKS: There is, um, elements of that in that album, but the actual focus is on a new CD– possibly even a double CD.

JW: Oh, wow. Well, I don’t want to keep you very much longer because I know you have sound check to do. I understand that you guys have a lot, a whole ton, of merchandise this time around. You’ve got a lot of CD’s and a lot of special things with you?

EKS: Yeah, if it all gets delivered in time, yeah. I mean, is A Perfect Mystery in the stores there yet, by any chance?

JW: I haven’t seen it, no.

EKS: It wasn’t in Toronto last night, and, well, we had forty of them (laughs). They all went.

JW: How about the Farewell, Milky Way?

EKS: That should be in Boston. That should be the first show where it’s available, if everything goes to plan. You can never quite tell, but if it goes to plan, that will be there.

DM: I heard that you weren’t doing very many old things from your albums. What’s the oldest that you go back on this tour?

EKS: Oh . . . .I think “Evolution” might be the oldest song that we’re playing this tour. Um, or “Disturbance” as well.

DM: Is it more because you’re doing more of the live thing now with all the five members?

EKS: There’s a lot of improvisation. We tend to call upon songs that can develop and change, uh, because that keeps it fresh and alive. To play a song like “The More It Changes,” which is a fine song in itself, but play it forty times, and really, you wind up going through the motions or something like that and that’s not really what it’s about. Just leave it to the CD and enjoy it for what it is there, you know.

JW: I like the way you sometimes revisit old things and make them new and make them modern in part of the new band. I really like that.

EKS: Yeah, me too. And we have been working on an arrangement of “Poppy Day,” with violin, which I don’t know if it will be ready for Boston. We’ve only tried it once. But it sounded very pleasing when we did it. And so, like, that’s something that’s waiting in the wings — there are a lot of songs that are waiting in the wings at the moment.  Hopefully we’ll get a chance to pull them together in sound check. It was unfortunate last night since we were under such pressure that we didn’t really get that chance to, you know, stretch ourselves before the show itself, with the equipment turning up late.  And the next few nights maybe we do . . . stuff that will happen in the sound checks.

DM: Also I heard that there’s a book coming out, Love and Loud Colors, that’s going to be a lot of your prose and poetry. Do you have a lot involved with that or are you mainly just handing things over? And are you writing new material for it or is it going to be alot of older . . . ?

EKS: Oh, well, Kirsten, who is making the book — we’re in touch a lot. But I very much leave it in her hands, how she presents it, because I’ve seen her work and it’s really very tasteful, and very good. And I just know it’s in good hands.

JW: So speaking of things in hands and stuff like that, I have a question about the –it might be a tender subject, if you don’t want to talk about it that’s OK — the old Play It Again Sam catalog. Is it coming out soon? Is it going to be released throughSoleilmoon or is there anything holding it back?

EKS: Oh, there’s nothing holding it back. The plan is to begin reissuing in the States after the tour. You know, because there is so much around at the moment — like the new album, and the Farewell, Milky Way album — and this takes a lot of preparation and a lot of work. And Charles at Soleilmoon likes to take time with each project. A lot of them just rush something out. Which, [taking time] I believe is the right way. Otherwise it becomes a bit of an overload. I mean, it’s also all coming out on SPV Poland as well with different covers, and hopefully Polish translations of the lyrics as well. But it all should become available, again. I mean, it needs to be because there are certain albums that are just completely unavailable now for some time. Like The Tower, and . . . .

JW: And Crushed Velvet Apocalypse, I know people are searching long and hard for that.

EKS: Yeah, The Golden Age as well — The Lovers — I mean, they’ve all disappeared. So it’s, yeah, they will come out again. I’m sure.

JW: So it’s been twenty years since you’ve started.

EKS: Almost, yeah.

JW: Yeah, I mean, what does that feel like — do you feel as fresh? I mean, it’s just an amazing thing to think about. Twenty years, I mean, that’s incredible.

EKS: Oh, it feels great. I mean, I still absolutely love it and enjoy it. And I’m still discovering things, and as long as I’m discovering things, that’s what counts, I think. If it was a case of everything intending to sound the same, or if I was repeating myself a little too much without — I mean, sometimes I repeat myself but it’s quite a deliberate ploy. But if I found that I was doing it accidentally, that would really be the time to ask questions. It feels good. The band feels very good at the moment. I’m enjoying this line-up.

JW: Right. Are there any more future plans for any more Edward Ka-Spel solo sets, or Silverman solo sets, or even Twilight Circus solo sets in the upcoming future?

EKS: Ummm, I’m leaving that a little bit to, uh, the moment, really. There’s a possibility in that last show on San Mon Island that there’ll be a Silverman set.  Possibly an Edward and Silverman improvisation of special things. That’s something I’d like, but then it would be an improvisation. It wouldn’t be a solo set of solo songs. It would be, let’s see where this takes us — let’s set up and play and find out where we go because that’s actually the most glorious feeling of all.

JW: Alright, well it sounds like people are starting to play the drums behind you.

EKS: Oh, they’ve been doing it quite some time.

DM: What are some of your favorite cities to show up in? To do shows in?

EKS: Ooooo, ummm . . .

JW: Remember you’re on the radio with Boston right now.

EKS: (Laughing) Oh, Boston, absolutely, yeah . . .

DM: (Laughing) And I’m from New Orleans.

EKS: Oh, and New Orleans, yeah. Actually I do like New Orleans, wonderful. Actually I do; I am fond of that place. Umm, Austin. I always like playing in Austin. Umm, I think Denver, Seattle . . .

DM: Do you find that the crowd is a little bit different here than in Europe?

EKS: Yeah, well, you can’t really say Europe, really, because within Europe each country is so remarkably different from another. I mean, I love playing in a country like Poland, in Europe — it’s just, the thrill . . . The people are great.

JW: Yeah, you guys are pop stars in Poland.

EKS: Oh, we aren’t pop stars but we have a very dedicated following that seems to understand us very very well there. We just connect somehow with Poland.

JW: Do you think that any of your international success over the last few years has been in part due to all the people connecting on the various mailing lists and the news groups and the websites and all those things?

EKS: Absolutely. Beyond any measure of a doubt. You know, we’ve noticed our popularity go up in places like England. Quite markedly. And it’s not to do with any type of publicity in England, it’s to do with basically more and more people getting online there. In fact our London shows last year were the best shows of the year.

JW: That’s pretty strange because you haven’t played London in a long time. A very tough crowd.

EKS: They were marvelous. It was so emotional. We could have played forever in front of these people. It was just so . . uh . . I almost cried, especially at that first London show. It was like . . . coming home.

JW: Are there other places that have been traditionally very difficult to play that you’ve found to be absolutely amazing now or maybe were great before and just have sort of changed or something — any big changes in places?

EKS: Paris isn’t what it was. I mean, still a big crowd comes along but it’s just not what it was. Brussels is excellent. The odd little Dutch show that we played, which, I mean, even playing once or twice in Holland, I used to really dislike it because we’d have this rather bored audience that just wouldn’t even notice you. They’d just be talking about, uh, what they bought in the supermarket during the week. That’s changed now, to, actually, a very supportive audience. Uh, some places just always are great: Prague, that’s another city that — I don’t know, we mean something there. A lot of people turn out and they get so much behind it.

JW: Well it’s a great experience, I mean you’re very personal . . . .

[CLICK — Here’s where Edward’s calling card runs out.]

JW: I think we lost him. Did we loose him? OK, well it looks like we’ve lost contact. Umm, the phone is cut dead. His calling card probably ran out. We’ll see if we can get him back on, if not, well, then I guess that would be it for the interview.

[THE END.]

The Legendary Pink Dots are a phenomenon, producing a seemingly endless stream of deeply intense records and genuinely spellbinding live shows for nearly twenty years, initially as a London-based group and for more than a decade now from their Nijmegen base in The Netherlands. While former days on mammoth independent label Play It Again Sam in Belgium produced widespread distribution for a series of classic albums, it also had all the negative aspects of association with the near-majors; the linking of sales to popularity and promotion to potential Indie chart success. For a while the band were in small-scale, own-label limbo, before the saving graces of Brainwashed’s excellent LPD internet site and the supportof first Staalplaat in Amsterdam, and then Soleilmoon in Portland, Oregon restored and replenished their status as one of the most strangely neglected of Britain and Europe’s true musical underground.

With the benefit of Soleilmoon’s re-issue and new-release schedules for not only the Pink Dots but the solo releases by co-founders Edward Ka-Spel and Phil Knight (AKA The Silverman), and audiences drawn in by the band’s ongoing collaborative work with Skinny Puppy/Download as The Tear Garden as well as tangentially from the playful dubs of bassist/drummer Ryan Moore’s one-man old-school psychedelic Reggae sound system Twilight Circus (also with an ever-expanding back-catalogue and new album Dub Plate Selection 2), things are looking up for this most apocalyptic of bands in 1999. Freq caught up with EdwardKa-Spel at The Underworld in London, where the Dots played their second show of the year as the penultimate gig on their European tour, a significant event considering their absence from the country for six years. For this tour, the remainder of the line-up was completed by reedsman Nils vanHoornblower and guitarist Martijn de Kleer, with the crucial (but frequently overlooked) engineering skills of Frank Verschuuren on the mixing desk.

FREQ: The Dots remain underground in Britain particularly, but are perceptions different elsewhere? How does it appear to you?

Edward Ka-Spel: The thing about the Dots is that it’s an underground band everywhere, even in the countries where we do well, like America and Poland. It’s just a much bigger underground band in those kind of countries – there seems to be much more fanaticism in those countries, with people who turn up in some numbers – I don’t know why that is, it’s probably something to do with the whole way that music is listened to, and exposure there. Oddly, since it’s been impossible to buy our records in Britain, our popularity has gone up! We don’t know why that is, but it seems to be a lot to do with the Internet. Things are very fragmented, but it makes not a lot of sense. To be honest, it’s much worse for us in the country we now live in, Holland. That’s the worst of all; we get one show a year, and always in the same place. A hundred people show up, the whole media ignores it, and that’s it, we go on our way. It’s kind of dry.

FREQ: Was it always that way in Holland for example?

EK-S: No, for a period we were really rather popular there. In the middle ofthe Eighties we played a couple of big festivals, we were on the radio a lot, and all the bigger journalists seemed to chase after us. We really thought “Wow! We’ve made it in this country” – it was one of the big reasons to move to Holland, but it was a bit like Andy Warhol’s thing where you’re famous for fifteen minutes, and then they move on.

FREQ: Would you be tempted to come back to live in England?

EK-S: I’ve got family in Holland, but in some ways I’m very dissatisfied withthe place. There is something very odd about it – I don’t feel completely in my place there. But then again, I don’t think there’s anywhere on the planet I feel completely in my place.

FREQ: Is that where the Dots’ music comes from – a placeless feeling?

EK-S: Right – it’s been about not really belonging; almost not particularly relating to the human race. It’s a perspective other people do seem to connect to – there are a lot of satellites floating around on the surface of this planet, and somehow we seem to get through to those. The internet really changed the whole position of the band.  You know, we used to go to a place like Sweden, and we’d have about ten people on the door, or twenty people here or there. Now we can go there and we get a couple of hundred at every show – yet everything we do is harder to get – we are more elusive than we were, and again it’s the internet – which is a very very powerful medium.

FREQ: Do you associate the problems you had with Play It Again Sam with the cause of the difficulty in getting Dots records?

EK-S: They were a lot to do with it in that there were two records which did really, really well for the Pink Dots, The Crushed Velvet Apocalypse and TheMaria Dimension, which sold about 30,000 copies, but Shadow Weaver,the record after The Maria Dimension, Play It Again Sam did not like. They thought it was very uncommercial, they didn’t do anything with it – they almost buried it – and that became our fate from then on with PIAS. They never really put much effort into us at all. They’d kind of thought “Well, they have a cult following, most people will buy it anyway”- and the view from then on was that that cult following was still there but getting older and getting smaller – but this wasn’t strictly true. In America we actually had a very young crowd, and that was why it did indeed slip for us in Europe, but the emphasis simply changed – Soleilmoon just believed in us straight away, really treated us like no other band they’d ever had on the label – you know, they promote us quite heavily, all with consultation, there’s a little bit of a plan involved, and we’ve swung along with (label manager) Charles Pownes’ ideas, and it’s proved to be reallyworthwhile.

FREQ: The PIAS records are going to be re-released through Soleilmoon next year- how do you feel about those reissues?

EK-S: Well, it’s very hard to get any of them – it’s really to keep them alive- I believe in those old records. Some I believe in more than others, but I think they should be there. Because the Pink Dots isn’t one of those bands where it’s just the new album, off it goes and the back catalogue is dead. It’s all part of an ongoing present, really – that stuff is still relevant.

FREQ: Word of mouth on those records and on the very existence of the Dots seem to have been a major factor in keeping you going – it’s not like bands who are popular because the media say they should be.

EK-S: No, in some ways we’ve been one of the most ignored bands of these times.  Considering what we’ve done and where we’ve been, it’s an odd status that we have. Why have The Wire magazine always completely ignored the band? I get the feeling they hate us; they wouldn’t be the first magazine of that type to literally hate us – I don’tknow why. We seem to garner that kind of response, that people either love or hate us, and nothing in between.

FREQ: One listing for this show at the Underworld described the Dots as “surviving members of Eighties Industrialists…”

EK-S: I mean, it’s completely off the rails – it’s obvious they have no idea what they’re talking about

FREQ: If you had to put yourself into any category, what would your preferred one be?

EK-S: There just is none. I’m glad – I think people are too quick to pigeonhole, which is in a way some magazine’s whole trip: if you can’t pigeonhole it, they don’t want to know about it. We don’t move in this boy’s club of chin-stroking, which is actually an area I’m really very allergic to – it’s not a trainspotter’s band.

FREQ: It does seem to be a very British attitude to take a band and analyse it to death.

EK-S: No, it’s quite global!

FREQ: On the actual process of the music-making, how do arrive at a song? Doyou have any particular process that you’ve fallen into over the years, or is there amore conscious design?

EK-S: It comes from all angles really. A lot of the basic ideas either come from myself or Ryan, and we would tend to improvise over these ideas, and develop it from there. If I’ve got really incredibly firm ideas about a piece then normally I would claim it for a solo record.

FREQ: There’s definitely a different feel to your solo records that is identifiable once you get beyond the sound of your voice, which is obviously essential to both; but do you feel that your position within the Dots is over-emphasised as being “your” band…?

EK-S: Yeah, I’d say it was. It’s a very commited bunch of people really. In some ways, like I know Ryan sometimes gets sad that he’s been in the band for ten years and doesn’t get the recognition that he absolutely really deserves. He does deserve more, alot more. Phil, he’s been there since the start, he’s written a lot of the really classic tunes for the Pink Dots. It’s not really fair – OK, I’m the face of the Pink Dots and the lyricist of the Pink Dots, so there’s an acceptance that that’s also part of it…

FREQ: That seems to be a general thing with most bands that have lyrics, that you get the person who sings them seen as the spokesman – but it’s also interesting to see that the solo recordings are very different to the Dots’, but also you can feel the same atmosphere coming from them, from The Silverman recordings, and from the TwilightCircus records too.

EK-S: Sure, they’re very individual projects, and I really like them both, I mean they’re great. There’s a new solo album of mine on the way, a very dark record, it’s an uncomfortable record. Very musical, very beautiful, but it’s actually a lot darker than The Blue Room.

FREQ: There’s still a lot of optimism underpinning your lyrics.

EK-S: Yeah, I don’t know why, well, I do know why, it’s to do with maybe a year I had, it’s all tended to find it’s way into this new project.

FREQ: The source of the lyrics seems very personal, and encoded as well, inlayers and layers and layers, which is part of the fascination as you listen to a Dots song or one of your solo songs, and maybe five years later finally get some perspective on it which is different to what might have been there the first time you hear it.

EK-S: You need a heavy drill! It’s usually straight, I don’t think about it -it’s like automatic writing. You can read it later and you think “Oh my god, did I write that!” I know exactly what I mean, and sometimes it’s like “Ooh, my god!” somebody else who’s involved in this song is reading this – I’ve had that; ex-girlfriends who’ve said “I really have to listen to that song!”

FREQ: Has that caused you any personal problems?

EK-S: Yes, it’s not without them…

FREQ: It’s very exposed and raw

EK-S: It’s painful, it can be painful.

FREQ: Is it a form of catharsis?

EK-S: Yeah, it’s the only way to let it go, to let everything which gets bottled up out. If there wasn’t that escape route, that valve to let all that kind of thing out, I don’t know where I’d be.

FREQ: The persona that you project on stage and on record, it’s quite an intense one; was one that you arrived at consciously?

EK-S: It’s just part of me. It’s caused me a lot of trouble in my life really. Often relationships begin, and your better half wants you to be like you are on stage allthe time, which you can’t be yet it’s undoubtedly part of you. I don’t even know how to talk about it really, it’s part of my personality, something that needs to scream. It can make you laugh as well, but it’s wiser just to preserve itself to the stage, or intense moments offstage. I don’t know, I’m English, I have the traditional British reserve. It upsets a lot of people, that stage persona – I’ve had more than one reviewer describe me as the most arrogant person ever to walk on a stage.

FREQ: It doesn’t really come across as arrogant, it’s more revelatory, showing an aspect of the human condition which is quite often hidden or for that matter restricted…

EK-S: Yeah, it’s letting it out. It’s absolutely serious what I’m doing – I don’t want to push anyone over the edge, but I’d certainly like to see them stand on that edge, becoming aware of that edge, and looking down over that precipice and seing what’s going on down there. I would hope that it’s life-changing.

FREQ: How do you deal with that role? Do you think it was something that just comes to you?

EK-S: It was never thought out, it was never planned, I don’t even know if if it’s for positive reasons or negative reasons. I suppose it’s like getting every part of me out there, showing it all. You know, almost like standing naked. I believe that every answer to everything lives within one human being and it’s just a case of looking, of searching and searching through all the dark parts. If that’s what I can inspire, if that’s what I’m doing, and it’s very much something for myself as well, then I’m successful. As I said earlier, we’re not a trainspotter’s band, we’re not the sort of band where it’s a matter of that cassette came out then, and collecting everything -every band has that, the collector. What is nice with the Pink Dots is that we seem to have a really very mixed audience. A mix of the type of people who come, agewise, appearance-wise, very split between male and female. in America I’d say we even had a larger percentage of female rather than males, which pleases me as females tend to be more sensitive people.

FREQ: Where do you see the Dots going? Is there a master plan?

EK-S: There never has been really… it just is. it’s as intense as it’s ever been, and that’s why it’s a shock to be described as “surviving members” of The Dots, it’s a ridiculously absurd thing to say. I mean he whole core of this band has been there ten years, Martijn has been there almost ten years, though he was out for a little time, that’s twice as long as most bands last.

FREQ: Is Martijn back as a permanent member of the Dots now?

EK-S: We’re not sure yet, Edwin had a very bad time and we’re giving him the space to see how it goes, what he wants.

FREQ: Wiil you be doing anything specific to mark or acknowledge the existence of the Millennium?

EK-S: Probably not. There was a vague plan to play at this nuclear power plant in Germany which never opened. The building cost of zillions of Deutschmarks and never operated and there was originally a little plan to play a show there, but it’s faded into nothing. Bit of a shame. There was also a vague plan to play Jerusalem, but it didn’t work out. Israel is a place we must go back to. We got a lot of people from Israel asking us back. They were fantastic, which was a shock. It’s the only place where there have been people waiting at the airport for us to arrive! Great people, they really liked us.

FREQ: You do inspire fanaticism.

EK-S: Yeah, sure. Sometimes a little over the top. There was one show where someone was arrested carrying a gun in LA, where else? About three shows ago at The Roxy. I love The Roxy, they treat us great, but it could only happen in LA! I’ve had strange people in Texas following me around saying “You have the key to The Tower.” We get some dangers – I’ve had people jumping onto the stage and pushing me too, and yelling the words of “The Fool” at me.

FREQ: What do you think about when that happens?

EK-S: Part of me expects it. You can’t do what you do without having that element there. It’s not an act, it’s not really a show. you know it’s for real, and so you’re gonna get very real reactions in your turn. You can’t be shocked or appalled when that happens. I don’t feel comfortable with it always, but you know, that’s the path I chose. It’s how it’s got to be – at least I know that it’s getting through. It’s the only way.

FREQ: It’s often been said that there’s a cultish aspect beyond that of being a cult band to the Dots, as when you used the name The Prophet Qa’spel in previous years – if you weren’t doing this would you be a cult leader leading people through to a Millennial apocalypse?

EK-S: That’s quite a hard one! No, no, these sort of people interest me for sure, but usually i’m someone who reallly dislikes anyhting that’s that organised, you know, I mean the whole message is really look inside yourself, see what you find. I want the world to be a better place, not a worse place. Not being another nutcase leading a flock up a mountain – I don’t think anything’s particularly going to change anyway. You know it’s not really heading into anything worthwhile for this world that we live in.

FREQ: Your efforts seem to make a difference for some people.

EK-S: Sure, I mean this is my own way. The planet is changing absolutely, and I think if you take a holistic view of recent events, more and more I abolutely believe in this hand that basically pulls everything along, and shapes it. We have to go, no matter what happens, along with this. Call it destiny; and I believe it happens very much at apersonal level as much as on the global level. I think it’s immovable, but I don’t thinkit’s negative. It is positive; how the planet is now is how it has to be now. It’ll be a completely different place within ten years, but now it has to be trauma before it’s solace. We need this chaos now – we need it to learn. I believe in self-awareness, but I also believe in destiny. Sometimes it’s easier than other times, but at this time I’m in personal chaos at the moment. Sometimes you want things to be clear, to have some kind of order, but that’s impossible right now. I tend to treat myself a little bit like a leaf on the wind…

FREQ: Just being part of the programme?

EK-S: Yes, we’re players on the board.

©Freq 1999

The Legendary Pink Dot’s Edward Ka-Spel

Interview by Matt Heilman
Introduction Courtesy of Edward Ka-Spel

HISTORY

If myths have substance then it would be possible to believe that LPDs change their line-up every week. Not true at all..The line-up changed once in the last 9 years.Right now it looks like this…….

THE SILVERMAN/keyboards
RYAN MOORE /drums, bass
EDWARD KA-SPEL/vox,keyboards
EDWIN VON TRIPPENHOF/guitars
NIELS VAN HOORNBLOWER/horns,flute
FRANK VERSCHUUREN/Sound wizardry

It wasn’t always so stable. In the early 80s people came and went so fast that for about a month or so there were actually 2 versions of the Legendary Pink Dots with the same lead vocalist. A troubled merger occurred in 1981 and the peculiarly unified results can be heard on LPDs first official album “Brighter Now” released at the end of ’82. LPDs first appeared live in October 1980 at a local folk club in East London.

Unfortunately half of the audience retreated to the back wall, interpreting the bands nervous state as a bad attitude. This attitude problem seemed attractive to the rest of the 100 strong crowd, but alas the band was never invited back.The Dots were paid 5 English pounds for this spectacle.

For some years during the 80s The Dots enjoyed a strong 6 person line-up (all English) and recorded albums such as “Island of Jewels”, “Any Day Now”, and “The Golden Age”. They also toured Europe seriously and signed with the then small independent label, Play it Again Sam Records.

Perhaps a little prematurely 4 people left the band in 1988, and Niels Van Hoornblower stepped in as horn player while Bob Pistoor took over the guitarists role.

With this line-up “The Crushed Velvet Apocalypse” and “The Maria Dimension” were recorded, and the success of these albums led to Warner Bros. USA approaching the band with a view to making a deal. A little naively, the Dots never followed up this approach and remained under the wing of PIAS.

Tragedy struck in 1992 when Bob Pistoor died from cancer. Martyn de Kleer took over on guitar while Ryan Moore stepped into the band on bass after meeting them in his native Vancouver during LPDs second USA tour.

A protracted battle with Play it Again Sam dominated the next years, and the band quit the label in 1994, deciding to take over their own affairs.

A fruitful partnership began with USA label, Soleilmoon in 1995 and the bands popularity steadily began to grow again on the other side of the Atlantic.

The year ended in spectacular fashion when the Dots played to the biggest ever audience in Mexico city (around 2,500 people). It meant that The Dots focus switched from Europe to America and the band returned there for a 30 show tour in 1997, and followed up with 36 dates one year later.

THE PHILOSOPHY Sing While you May. The band’s catchword since the start…it is an OPTIMISTIC statement in these disturbing times.

* * *

Starvox: There is such a long history to absorb in regards to your work and the Legendary Pink Dots. And I have to be honest, I am a relatively new fan, and I am not too familiar with the extensive history of the band and many of the releases. What I have heard, I absolutely LOVE and ADORE. So if you can, please discuss how/when/where the band formed, and what were the initial goals and intents of the project?

Ka-Spel: LPDs were formed in 1980 (August) by myself, The Silverman and April Iliffe (the only one of us who could actually play an instrument). It was a time when bands were popping up out of the woodwork all over Britain. They’d make a cassette, duplicate a few, give them a cover and hand their work off to NME where it was miraculously often reviewed. I used to buy some of these cassettes, and regrettably normally had to find ear protection fast. Even so, the climate was healthy, and we bought a synth (Korg MS10), a drum machine and an amplifier…all on credit because we were broke. Songwriting began almost straight away and we cobbled our first cassette release together in around 3 months (Only Dreaming). I think 10 were made, each with hand-made cover (a pop-up messiah figure).

Bored with duplicating, we simply moved on to the next release, and the next until DDAA (a great little band in France) offered to release something properly (“Atomic Roses”). Again a cassette, but so beautifully made. The first record came out at the end of ’82 (Brighter Now) in an edition of 1990. Our initial goal? As obscure as it is now…we do it because we HAVE to…

Starvox: I know that most artists despise labels. I know myself that sometimes a particular tag seems to limit things and spark an unjust comparison. But inevitably, people seem to feel the need to label things. Do you prefer any labels to your art? Are you comfortable with the Gothic tag or do you prefer perhaps experimental or psychedelic? Genius perhaps?

Ka-Spel: Just Legendary Pink Dots. Like others, I hate categories… but I’ve nothing against those who label themselves gothic, experimental or psychedelic.

Starvox: I have found it increasingly difficult to find many LPD releases, unless of course I go through mail order and I always feel like I am getting majorly ripped off with the shipping and prices. Nonetheless, it seems that when a bands discography is hard to find it adds a deeper mystery to them. Do you enjoy this cult-like status of your music? And also, are there many plans to make some of the older releases more readily available?

Ka-spel: Older releases will become much easier to find in 2000 when Soleilmoon assumes responsibility for the back catalogue. LPDs is unashamedly a cult band…it always will be.

Starvox: The quote ‘Sing While You May’ is a said to be personal philosophy of the band. Obviously, I can gather that it has an optimistic carpe diem vibe to it, but is there a deeper scheme of thought behind it? What exactly does this quote mean to you on a personal level and what are you trying to express to your fans?

Ka-Spel: More my personal philosophy… we can argue about this within the group. It’s meant to be positive at a strange time when (in my view) events are accelerating towards saturation point and systems we rely upon are likely to collapse. Not the end of the world, but a dramatic transformation when excess will no longer be possible. Enjoy this exciting time. Be glad you live now. Sing while you may.

Starvox: It was actually the Tear Garden that sparked my interest in the LPDs. I was thoroughly enthralled with the first record and I quickly got a copy of ….Crippled Soul Divide, and it is by far one of my favourite records. Can you tell us a little bit about how the Tear Garden project came into being and your relationship with cEvin Key?

Ka-Spel: cEvin first wrote me in 1982…he collected our early cassettes and we stayed in touch by mail. In ’86 I was invited to play some solo shows in Vancouver and he asked to engineer. Before I came he sent a cassette of Center Bullet and asked if I could sing with it. I wrote the lyrics on the plane…and TG was born.

Starvox: I have heard that there is a new Tear Garden CD soon to be released. Can you tell us a bit about that? Any particular concept behind the album or any new musical direction? How does it compare to the other material?

Ka-Spel: New TG (Crystal Mass) bears closest relationship with the first TG (Tired Eyes) in that it is more electronic than its predecessors. A deliberate move, as we felt LPD and TG were becoming a little too similar.

Starvox: You seem to be quite a busy man. Is there any particular reason why you surround yourself in so much music, and any reason for the many side projects? How do you think they all differ? Do they represent a certain personality of yours or specific mindset/idea?

Ka-Spel: I enjoy new approaches, different inputs from people…so collaborations are exciting if I have time.  But there’s also a side of me which wants to have complete control..so that’s why there are solo CDs (a new one is due soon- “Red Letters”)

Starvox: To me, the music of LPD seems to be so eclectic and open, that basically any style of music could be performed on a LPD record and it would sound right, it would have the signature LPD sound. From what I have heard, the music of Tear Garden and LPD seem almost interchangeable and compliment each other.

Ka-Spel: Its a particularly feeling about a piece that sees it end up on an LPD album…an intuitive thing.

Starvox: I had the pleasure of seeing you guys live a couple of years ago in Pittsburgh. I went to the show because I try to attend all dark music shows in the area and I had never even heard you guys before. I just heard, They are really cool and very trippy! LOL! So I went and I was absolutely spellbound. I love the effects that were used on the brass instruments and just the stage performance itself was hypnotic. So do you plan to return to the US any time soon? How have the responses to your shows been overall in the US? What do you think of the US and the music scene over here?

Ka-Spel: That Pittsburgh show was actually one of our lesser ones, honestly.  Normally USA is much better for us to play than almost anywhere in western Europe. Bigger and more open crowds (especially on the west coast)…the whole continent just seems to care more about music. The plan is to return in June.

Starvox: I know this is sort of a worn out question, but every time it is posed unto a different artist, a unique response is given, so I will ask you.  Where do you draw your inspiration for your art?

Ka-Spel: Radio Zophquiscuo, a pirate sender emanating from the Planet Erg, operated by a race of utterly oppressed, but supremely gifted stick insects who sing about their tragic history in high pitched Finnish (backwards). I record it , slow it down and translate it into English. I ensure that they get part of the royalties.

Starvox: If you dont mind me asking, what are some of your personal hobbies besides music? What other musicians, writers, artists, or filmmakers do you admire or enjoy? What do you like to do in your spare time?

Ka-Spel: Harlan Ellison,Robert Sheckley are great writers…mostly I read when I have the chance.

Starvox: What is your fondest memory as a musician? Any particular tour or time spent in the studio for a particular album?

Ka-Spel: Recording of Maria Dimension.  A glorious summer..lots of inspiration, playing Mexico City for the first time. That solo tour of USA with Skinny Puppy.

Starvox: Since I am not all that familiar with a lot of your material, in closing I would like to ask on behalf of people who may never have heard ANY of your material: what releases would you most recommend as introductions to LPD, Tear Garden, or any of your other projects? What were your favourite recordings and why?

Ka-Spel: Maybe “Maria Dimension”, “9 Lives to Wonder”, “The Last Man to Fly” or..for the complete depressive….”The Golden Age”.

Starvox: I appreciate you taking the time out to participate in this interview. I hope to see you on tour soon!!! On behalf of Starvox Music Zine, we thank you for your time.

Ka-Spel: All the best

Pink Dots aims sound at younger audiences

By Sam Toussi, Daily Bruin Contributor

The Legendary Pink Dots is quite possibly the only band in history to guarantee brain damage to their listeners.

Currently, the Pink Dots is on a grueling tour of the states. The band members have already traveled for a long time in their RV across the country. On Friday, the Pink Dots will appear at the Roxy in an all-ages show.  Actually, it will only seem like it.

“It’s just a humorous reference to what may happen if you listen to our music,” says Edward Ka-Spel, the frontman for the band. “It might turn your head inside out.”

It’s an unusual claim, but the Legendary Pink Dots (affectionately known as the Pink Dots) is not like the usual band. Its music defies a genre. The best way to describe the Pink Dots is to compare its music to a mind trip. The music is like a cross between the sereneness of Enya, storytelling of Pink Floyd and the lyrical mischief of Beck. It’s not surprising that the band lists the German psychedelic band Can as one of their many influences.

Though the Pink Dots have been around for over 18 years, things have been looking up for the British band in the last three years. First of all, the band started a relationship with Soleilmoon, its new label, just three years ago. Ka-Spel practically lights up when discussing the new label.

“It’s a great relationship,” he says. “They let us do what we want to do. They try very hard to get us known, and they get behind each new record.”

But Ka-Spel also feels compelled to retell the horror story they last experienced with a label.

“We were practically beaten to death,” he says. “They still have some of our songs that we can’t release.”

Soleilmoon is also happy with the new relationship. Charles Pound, a representative at the record label says, “They’re just the nicest people to represent. They’re just nice folk. We do whatever we can to accommodate them.”

Another reason the band has been having happy days of late is its consistent line-up. The group’s personnel has been so transient over the years that Ka-Spel and Silverman are the only two band members to appear on every album. The stability that the band has experienced in the last three years has been beneficial in several ways.

“You can’t be in a bus for two months without being friends,” Ka-Spel says. “We have our ups and downs, that’s inevitable, but we always get along.”

Any band’s style will change over 18 years, especially when band members change frequently. Yet despite the coming and going of band members, the Pink Dots have been able to retain its unique sound.

“It’s still Pink Dots, you know,” Ka-Spel says. “You can see the lines pretty clearly. We changed, of course, but I think the way we play has changed because we play a lot better these days.”

Though the sound has remained the same, The Legendary Pink Dots realizes a need to reach a younger audience – and for that reason, the band is excited to play the all ages show at the Roxy this Friday.

“How can any band survive if new people don’t keep discovering them?” Ka-Spel asks. “What we’re doing is relevant to these times. It’s utterly modern.”

Pound also sees the future in a younger audience and finds that that is one of the best things about the band.

“We don’t shape them in that respect or in any respect, “Pound says. “We’re totally aware that they have a younger following. It’s one huge reason why they’re so successful. They have a following in the 16-21 age group.”

© 1998 ASUCLA Communications Board

Hi all. Here is a little interview of EKS I realeased for a french zine whose name is ARTeFACT. I ‘ve thought that the CZ list could be interested in it. And sorry for my English which must be far to be good… 

– Fabrice Le Sceller

“I thank you very much for agreeing answering to my questions, Edward. There is really little number of bands acting so ‘friendly’ with their fans… ARTeFACT zine french readers are really fond of The Dots, and so do I! Your solo gig in Nantes last month was absolutely fabulous, and we wrote about it in our latest issue.

Well, here are some questions I’d like to ask you:

1) You’ve just finished to record the ‘Hallway of God’ successor, whose name might be ‘Nemesis On-line’.  Can you tell us more about this new album? Which are the points in common he would have with ‘Hallway…’? And the main differences?

EKS: Strangely it’s taken a different direction to “H’way”.  Faster, heavier, though still dense in it’s sound. Why the twist ….I don’t know. It was recorded right after the US tour in ’97 with the band on a high.

2) Being myself connected to the cloud-zero e-mail mailing list, I know that you’ve got many fans in the USA (perhaps due to your American label). Do you think you’re now more famous than during the last 80’s?  For example, can we know (in average) how many copies of a new album you usually sell around the world?

EKS: Hard to say exactly how many albums we sell.  Just enough to stay alive – but we had much more success in the early 90’s around the time of “Maria Dimension”.  At the moment we have no distribution in Europe and it’s hurting us quite badly- although things have never been better in the States.

3) I think the Triple Moon Tribute is now about to be realeased… Was it one of your idea? Have you still listened to some of these covers? What is your opinion about it?

EKS: Not my idea- but I think it’s really OK. Haven’t heard any of the covers yet.

4)Do you admit THE LEGENDARY PINK DOTS can have a positive influence on people’s lives? When writing a song, are you conscious that one particular song can play a part in someone’s life? Are you feeling responsible of it in some extent?

EKS:Sure. I met one guy who told me he was considering suicide until he heard “Methods” which made him laugh.  Don’t know if that’s true…but it made me feel good…

5) Although your music is quite often made with dark tunes, I do believe that ‘happiness’ is one of the main important themes in your music? Do you agree ? What represents the concept of ‘happiness’ specially for you, Edward?

EKS: Happiness? Doing what I want how i want it when I want, while harming no-one in the process.

6) I heard about a project album with David Tibet (C93). Will it be soon realeased? What kind of music is it?

EKS: It’s a project not yet realised, but I’d love it if it happens…

7) You of course had known about Rozz William’s suicide… What did you think about this particular man and his music?

EKS: Don’t know his music.  But a sad story, nonetheless.

8) One last word to say to ARTeFACT’s french readers? I hope you will be soon in Paris after this poorly cancelled show…

EKS: We want to come to Paris later this year.  We were angry that the show didn’t happen.