Summer 1996 (or 1993?)

Permission Magazine issue four interview by Jayson Elliot P = Permission magazine E = Edward Ka-Spel

P: What did you bring back from the record store?

E: Let’s see…Syd Barrett bootleg, Miles Davis, and a much neglected but brilliant man named John Bender – a real genuis from Cincinatti, from the start of the 80’s. Wonderful, but nobody knows him – this cost me like, $2.99. He’s very personal electronic. Electronic but with soul.

P: It’s difficult to find a lot of interviews with you – why is that?

E: I think, generally, most bands are basically seeking interviews and publicity; whereas the Pink Dots are the diametric opposite of that. (laughs) We tend to try and avoid interviews!

P: Does it bother you to do them?

E: Well, you get misquoted a lot of the time. Um, yeah, I suppose we’re kind of proud of our underground heritage. You know, if someone comes to us and asks, then normally we’ll say yes – but we certainly won’t seek out interviews.

P: How interested are you in reinterpreting things for people, such as when someone asks what a certain song meant?

E: That’s the hardest question of all, becuase even my own interpretations of some songs change. I see things that I didn’t see at the moment I concieved them. I think it’s a normal way of things – I do like people to interpret the songs themselves as well, to fill in their own shades and colors.

P: How personal are you in your songwriting? You are known for your wonderful storytelling, but at the same time, it feels very personal.

E: It *is* very personal, whether it’s about myself, or whether it’s about people I know – there’s also a lot of personal fantasy that goes into it.

P: What about, for example, a song like “The Hill”?

E: The Hill was one I didn’t write. One of the few that I didn’t write – that’s Patrick, our violin player.

P: How many members of LPD also work with the Tear Garden?

E: Ryan and Martyn, and Phil.

P: We had a chance, a couple of issues back, to speak with Cevin Key about the Tear Garden- one of things I was asking about was tour plans for Tear Garden, and he explained how difficult it is, with all of the work you each do with your other bands. Where do you see the Tear Garden going as a band?

E: We saw Cevin just a few days ago when we were in Vancouver, and we hung out together as we always do. We are talking about trying to tour – I don’t know what will happen, but everybody is very, very anxious to tour the Tear Garden. This is a project we all love – but exactly when it will happen is really in the lap of the gods.

P: Do you think the Tear Garden will affect the Legendary Pink Dots at all?

E: It has already!

P: What if the Tear Garden were to get bigger than the Pink Dots?

E: If it gets larger than the Pink Dots? No, it won’t affect it – the Pink Dots goes on. I love both – I love the Tear Garden as a project, I don’t see it as ending, I just see it going on, and being every bit as enjoyable as it’s always been.

P: Lyrically, do you approach the two bands any differently?

E: No, no exactly the same.

P: On your solo work, how do you differentiate yourself from the Legendary Pink Dots?

E: Well, the Pink Dots is five personalities – five very different personalities.

P: So you don’t regard it (LPD) as your sole vision at all.

E: No, I think that the Pink Dots is a band, and should be seen as a band, If I dictated, sort of everything has to be done my way with the Pink Dots – and there is also that need inside me – then there would be no solo projects. But it would be much less of a band. I don’t like bands that are one guy and a bunch of session musicians. You see it through, you hear it. You know that everyone in the Pink Dots *cares*.

P: And the Tear Garden, will the lineup stay the same as it is now? Are you planning to make that the permanent cast?

E: Who can tell? I couldn’t say, really. I mean, it will always be myself and Cevin, sure, but outside of that, who knows?

P: You have a new single out now, right?

E: Sheila Liked the Rodeo, yes, it’s from the same sessions (as Last Man to Fly). It’s more than a single, really – it’s practically a new album – it’s something like 50 minutes long.

P: Can you tell a little bit about that song?

E: “Sheila Liked the Rodeo?” Well, in a way, that was a last minute song in that Cevin and Dwayne together had prepared the music completely, they played it to me on the last two days of the sessions – the sessions lasted a month – and said “could you write some lyrics, do some vocals on this?” I said I’d give it a try, and took the track home for the night, there in Vancouver. I just came back in and put the vocals on the next day. I didn’t hear it again until about a month ago – “so that’s what they did with it, huh? That’s great!”

P: Is that one of the ways you’ve stayed so prolific, writing on the spot like that? How many albums have you had out in the last 9 or 10 years?

E: I don’t know, I’ve lost count.

P: I know it’s just a huge number.

E: It is a lot, yes.

P: How do you manage to do quite so much?

E: I don’t really know. It feels quite normal, I don’t feel like I’m going at an incredible speed. It’s just like a natural thing, we like to play and to record. The only thing that actually stops us releasing more is that we tour so much.

P: This is the first time you’ve been here for a while, isn’t it?

E: Two years.

P: Didn’t you have some problems getting into the country before?

E: Well, in 1991, I think, they turned down our work permits. It was political. Wax Trax, who we were with at the time, weren’t members of the union, and there was this thing of trying to force Wax Trax into the union, and therefore the Pink Dots into an American union, which makes no sense. It all turned into a political fight, and we were the losers.

P: How different is the music industry between America and Holland?

E: I have very little connection with the industry at all. I don’t like the record industry. I find I get very allergic when record companies start talking about how many *units* they’ve shipped of this or that – I just don’t really care. People talk about promoting you there, blah blah blah – it’s boring. I want to make music, I don’t want to worry about shifting units.

P: So long as you still have the money to keep making music, yeah.

E: We just get by. It’s tough sometimes – this is a tougher year.

P: When was the last time you had a job?

E: Nine years ago. But the first year was very, very hard. It was like, starvation, eating every other day, things like that. But I wanted to be here, I won’t complain about it – it’s been a good experience for me.

P: Could you tell me a little more about the first year, and before that? When the Legendary Pink Dots was forming, and what you were doing before?

E: Well, the Pink Dots began as just like a little dream. There were three of us – there was myself, and Phil, and a girl called April. We went to the Stonehenge Free Festival, and it was like a very laid back, low-key affair. I recall that we saw a band whose name we didn’t know, at 3 o’clock in the morning, at the end of this field, and there was nobody else there, just the three of us watching. In a way that was the birth of the Pink Dots. We just had this sort of collective feeling, “We want to do this too!” So as soon as we got back from the festival I bought a really cheap synthesizer and primitve drum machine, April had an old piano, and we just started playing, sometimes fifteen hour sessions. It was quite obsessive!

P: What was the first thing you wrote?

E: A song called “voices.”

P: Did the name for the band come about right away?

E: No, it took a while. It was a random idea. It was becuase there were pink blotches on the piano keys. And these ‘legendary pink dots’ were talked about long before the band actually termed itself The Legendary Pink Dots. I don’t remember who said “that’s a nice name for a band.”

P: Before the three of you decided to form the band, had you done any music previous?

E: No.

P: What had you been doing?

E: Just a variety of jobs, really. I *was* writing –

P: Do you still write outside of music?

E: Well, at times –

P: Anything that you would publish?

E: In time, maybe. There’s lots of ideas floating around, but I just don’t find the time. It’s mostly short stories and things like that.

“tonight i’m dressed in black i mourn the death of colour” -LPD

From: Nisus <seera@netcom.com> Subject: LPD interview 11/18/95 – AsYlem Magazine To: cloudzero <cloud-zero@cs.mcgill.ca>

Hey kids! Well, I finally transcribed that interview I mentioned right after the L.A. show. I’ve included the intro and show review as they’ll appear in AsYlem. I’ll also be putting information on how to join CZ and the web address at the end of the article. My discussion with them was more of a chat than an interview in the long run, and what I’ve posted here includes stuff that won’t be in the publication – just about everything I caught on tape – because I figure you’ll all be interested to hear things the general public probably wouldn’t care about… So, if some of it sounds like spam, that’s why. Also, the bit from A Nine Shades to the Circle is from my memory alone, so if it isn’t exact, I apologize and please correct me before 12/21.

And with no further ado….

L.P.D. Interview 11/18/95
AsYlem Magazine (with some CZ only additions)
– Winter Solstice Issue 12/21/95

***

“Like any other day, I heard the bell and grabbed my coat. I snatched a coffee, nearly choked and semi-cartwheeled headfirst in the rain. I knew I had to make that train. My life depended on that train.

It was cold, so I semi-cartwheeled back inside again. The phone rang, and though I usually am not very fond of telephones, this time I decided to answer it anyway. There was a voice on the other end of the phone, and the voice said, ‘Edward, we need you to be the new Pope – Pope Edwardus I’. ‘Well, this poses some dilemma,’ I said, ‘because first of all, the other Pope isn’t dead yet.’ But the voice said that they have ways of taking care of unwanted Popes.

‘Alright,’ I said, ‘but there’s still another problem – I’m not Catholic’. ‘That’s okay,’ said the voice, ‘neither were some of the other Popes. Some of them were Satanists’. ‘Well, I’m not exactly a Satanist either,’ I said, ‘but alright. There will have to be some changes, though. First of all, we’ll have Legendary Pink Dots music piped in throughout the city day and night. And what about all the money in the Vatican? We’ll have to give that to the charities. And there will have to be some changes in the Mafia, because the Mafia is connected to the Catholic church, you know. We’ll have a new head of the Mafia – a vegetarian pacifist head of the Mafia. And we’ll change the Catholic church to the New Progressive Church, and I’ll be Pope Edwardus I of the New Progressive Church.'”

***

This was the story told during the song “A Velvet Resurrection” when the Legendary Pink Dots played at Hollywood’s Roxy theater recently. The story changes for every show. Sometimes it involves talking corn flakes which ask vocalist/lyricist/keyboardist Edward Ka-Spel what he’s planning to do with them when he pours them into a bowl. Other times, the story revolves around a beautiful alien woman with many eyes who comes to our planet bearing “all vegetarian pizza,” which she’d really like to share with Edward, but can’t because she’s surrounded by threatening humans who don’t understand her good intentions. Other times the story involves talking plastic kangaroos named Joey. One never knows what to expect from the Netherlands-based quintet, but one can always expect it to be unique.

With a 15 year history and a following which compares to Deadheadism in ardor, the Legendary Pink Dots balance expertly on the head of that pin bordering the truly underground and the musically accessible. They sold out the Roxy; I was in fact offered $80 (quadruple the original price) to relinquish my ticket to unlucky fans who’d waited too long to buy theirs. The band and its releases are the subjects of a very interactive Internet mailing list known as “Cloud Zero.”

People who see them live are invariably hooked and the experience is so overwhelmingly intense that fans are known to follow them from city to city to keep the ‘trip’ going, instead of letting themselves ‘come down’ off Cloud Zero. And this is without drugs, man! Still, one is not likely to hear an L.P.D. song on the radio, nor see a listing for them in any musical encyclopedia. Neither will one find their releases on a huge capitalist record label, for their main source of distribution in America is the small, but very high quality Soleilmoon Recordings.

The L.P.D.’s incorporate nearly every genre of music in their unmistakable brand of quirky “kaleidoscope” sound. Violin brings a spattering of the classical, keyboardist Phil Knight (The Silverman) adds an industrial/experimental sense and then glides into near gothic arenas from time to time, and horn player Niels Van Hoornblower introduces a jazzy feel with saxophone while giving the music an exotic spice with flute. A splash of dub from bassist/percussionist Ryan Moore can be heard here and there on certain pieces, though the piano might linger on a loungy tune, and guitarist/drummer Martijn de Kleer wanders in and out of 60’s- reminiscent dittys. They’ve even dabbled with a waltz that could put Strauss to shame. All of this is combined with an uncanny timing and feel for music which makes listening to an album by the Legendary Pink Dots a truly magical experience.

During their recent trip to Los Angeles supporting their new album “From Here You’ll Watch The World Go By,” AsYlem seized the opportunity to talk with Ka-Spel and Moore about touring, vegetarianism, the drowning world, and Moore’s recent solo release as “Twilight Circus” – a highly respectable reggae dub album entitled “In Dub. Vol. 1.”

AsYlem: You don’t mind the tape recorder?

Edward Ka-Spel: Naw…. Just don’t ask us how we got our name.

A: Actually, I heard that it was from a keyboard you had that you put pink dot stickers on to indicate a chord progression…

EKS: Yeah, that’s the real story.

A: I’m curious, though, what became of the keyboard?

EKS: Ah! I don’t…that’s something…I’m not sure. I think friends… I mean, the house was demolished. It was really old – one of those beautiful old houses, but as is typical with beautiful old houses, they get torn down and a supermarket or parking lot is put in their place. England is no different than anywhere else as you’d suspect.

A: What part of England was that in?

EKS: East London.

A: I stayed in a squat in Hackney for…like, a month.

EKS: Oh, that’s a harsh area.

A: It was a nice experience, though. It was interesting just to be able to do that, you know, because I’d never been to Europe or certainly never lived in a squat.

EKS: Hackney’s as harsh as anywhere I’ve seen in America, actually.

A: Really?

EKS: In its way, yeah.

A: I didn’t find it that way at all, but that was several years ago, so…

EKS: Yeah. I know it, so I don’t feel uncomfortable there, but I mean, you get a lot of bad stuff that goes down in Hackney.

A: Wow, I didn’t even realize at the time. Of course, when you’re in a foreign country it’s like you’re oblivious, you know?

EKS: Yeah, that’s true.

A: How’s the tour going? I remember some years ago you told me about an experience where you nearly got electrocuted on a tour and ended up having to wear a big pink rubber glove or something. Have you had any weird experiences on this tour?

EKS: I got pneumonia on the tour. This was on the last part of the European tour and I’d been getting more and more ill show after show and I thought it was just the flu but it turned into a really heavy fever and I thought, ‘ahhh…I’ve got to do something about this’. We got to Holland right at the end of the tour and the guys said, “Look, you’ve got to see a doctor, you can’t go on like this.”

And I went to the doctor thinking, “Okay, he’s gonna give me something and I’ll play.” But he said, “You’ve got pneumonia and you can’t play.” And I just said, “I have to play. We live from this. What am I gonna tell the guys? What am I going to tell the crowd? They’re all there.”

So I laid down before the show, sort of stood up for the show, then laid down again afterwards. We had to cancel the next day’s show, there was no other way. But then I managed to stand up for Paris the day after and I completed the European tour and then I just kinda collapsed for a while…went to an island in Europe for a few days to recover.

A: How are you feeling now?

EKS: Fine now actually, completely clear of it.

A: Pneumonia, wow. That’s a bad state to be in for touring.

EKS: It’s probably my own fault. I should look after myself a little better than I do.

A: Yeah, you shouldn’t be smoking.

EKS: Yeah. I should take better care of myself, I really should. I guess that it’s just I tend to drive myself a bit too hard and I don’t eat as much as I should.

A: It catches up with you after a while.

EKS: Yeah, it catches up with you.

A: And you’re a vegetarian too, so you have to kinda watch what you’re eating, making sure you’re getting the right vitamins and things.

EKS: I’m always very paranoid of having anything to do with meat. Animal fat and things like that – I can’t stand the thought of that.

A: For what reason are you a vegetarian?

EKS: It’s just basically I like animals. You know, it wasn’t health reasons or anything like that. I’ve never been too conscious of that sort of thing.

A: The story about you guys having problems entering the United States a few years ago….I’ve heard three different versions.

EKS: An awful lot has been made of it and we’ve been in the states twice since, so I think it’s a freak thing. They tried to make a point with unions. They wanted us to be members of a union, the American Musician’s Union in fact. I think it’s more like a dispute between the record company we were with and the immigration service and we were unfortunately the victims. But since then it’s actually been very easy to get the visas. They just selected us as a test case but it just…the immigration service also got a lot of bad publicity out of it.

A: I heard that they said something about you guys not having artistic merit?

EKS: Well, that’s basically what they said, but then that was like their stock thing – Does a band have artistic merit or does it not have artistic merit? – and they base it on how many records they sell.

A: Are you serious? Oh that sucks!

EKS: I mean technically you have to be like Michael Jackson to get in, but it doesn’t really work that way, because the people who are in business with the immigration & naturalization, they don’t know who’s who. Skinny Puppy even had trouble getting in once and I think the argument was, “Well look, they’re on Capitol Records.” And the immigrations said, “Well, who’s Capitol Records?” Then they had to present a roster of musicians on Capitol Records and at the top of the roster was The Beatles and if they hadn’t heard of The Beatles, then really they are living on their own island.

A: That’s amazing, that they actually do that.

Ryan Moore: In order to come this time we had to send, you know, like 5000 pages of press clippings and interviews and everything.

A: They really make it that difficult?

EKS: They make it that difficult, yeah.

RM: And you have to use a lawyer. I mean, there would be no way otherwise.

EKS: It cost us a thousand dollars just to get in.

A: That is ridiculous.

RM: I mean, it’s like that for all bands.

A: I had no idea it was that difficult. I mean, just because you’re a band?

RM: Yeah, but I mean you’re taking jobs away from American bands. They were even planning to bring in legislation some years ago – I think it was Senator Kennedy or someone like that who fought against it…? I’m not sure, but part of this legislation which was being brought in by the American Musician’s Union, which I’m a part of the Canadian chapter of… they would have these rules like if somebody was not in the band for more than a year, then they couldn’t come. And also you have to prove artistic merit, whatever that is.

A: Yeah, I wonder who’s grand idea of artistic merit that is.

RM: Then there was also this ridiculous thing where, say for example some African star was going to come to America, then he would have to hire American musicians. You sort of have to prove why the whole band should be able to come and why somebody shouldn’t just hire American musicians from the union. So like King {my knowledge of African musicians is lacking – I seen this name, but don’t know how to spell it sounds like “soon-y-uh-day” – anyone know how you really spell this?} would have to come and hire a band in America. But I don’t think that one ever got through.

A: Man, it’s a wonder people even play here.

EKS: Yeah, it is surprising actually.

A: Now you guys had, what was it, a sword swallower or a fire eater open for you?

RM + EKS: Sword swallower!

EKS: Best opening act we ever had.

A: That is great! Where did you find him?

EKS + RM: He found us, actually.

EKS: That was classic. We wish it was always like that. We never know what we’re gonna get from night to night. I wish we did.

A: That was great. I read that on Cloud Zero and I thought, “Man, I wish I’d been at that show.”

RM: That created certainly a special vibe. I mean, he really swallowed the swords, he really did!

EKS: Yeah, and the way the audience reacted to him was just really significant – way better than they ever react to these opening bands that are just put there.

A: Yeah, and you feel sorry for the bands too because…

EKS: Some. We encountered one in New Orleans that I can’t feel sorry for at all. They posed and they were arrogant, and I didn’t like their performance, the way they were.

A: Yeah? Well, there’s no reason for arrogance, it’s true. When did you get started with the Dots, Ryan?

RM: Um…four years ago, I guess. I came over to Holland in December of 91.

A: What ever possessed you to do a reggae dub album?

RM: Well, that’s the kind of music that I was listening to when I started playing music. When I was a teenager, I was riding around listening to all this classic dub stuff on my ghetto blaster, riding around on my skateboard. So that’s kinda the music I was playing and the music I was listening to for the first couple of years that I was playing music. So that was a huge influence. And I already had this idea developing by about 1985 of wanting to make my own dub productions, but it’s taken about ten years to get to the stage of actually doing it because I needed to learn how to play drums well.

A: And your album came out when exactly?

RM: It came out in the Spring, but it took a really long time for me to make connections with distributors.

A: You do some percussion in the Dots, don’t you? Well, I guess you guys all pretty much do percussion in the Dots now, don’t you?

RM: Yeah.

EKS: Mmmmm, not me.

A: Hehehe, not a percussionist huh?

EKS: Nnnno. Not really.

RM: I’m kinda the main percussion guy at the moment.

EKS: Yeah, it’s really interesting that Ryan and Martijn (de Kleer) both play drums, because for a long time we couldn’t find a drummer at all for the Dots.

RM: I just wanted to say too… With the dub stuff… it’s just sort of like I’ve been developing these ideas for like ten years and its just taken me this amount of time to sort of finally get it together to get all the ideas.

A: Well, you play most everthing on the album, don’t you?

RM: Yeah well, I had to learn how to play all the instruments and I had to learn how to do the engineering and stuff as well, so all these years I’ve just been slowly learning skills and getting it together to be able to do it.

A: And didn’t you do the production and…some other stuff?

RM: I did the production and the engineering mostly.

A: Wow, what a project. And you’re going to do another one too, right?

RM: Yeah, I have another one which is almost finished. I just have to mix a couple more songs and I want to release it early next year. And it’s like the dub thing again, but it’s more creative and original and I’m using a lot more synthesized textures and interesting ethnic samples. So, this first one was like a very conservative sounding dub album, which was kind of the concept ‘cos it was my tribute to this old stuff that I got inspired by and then… I just have so many ideas, you know, like it’s really… It just kind of pours out.

A: Are you thinking about doing any other kind of music solo? Any other genres that you’re thinking of experimenting in?

RM: Yeah, I also have the idea at some point of doing something more like the kind of stuff we’re doing in the Dots realm. Songs with folk instruments and stuff.

A: What instruments were used on your dub album?

RM: Um… I used drums, bass, keyboards, sampler and percussionism. There are credits on there to “magical mystery guests,” ’cause there’s a violin line and some saxophone and some guitar, but those are samples that I used from other records. So, because I say that I play all the instruments, but I didn’t really want to take the credit for things that I didn’t do, I credit them as magical mystery guests. But after I read the liner notes I realized that probably a lot of people interpret it as being Dots members. I think they probably think that it’s Patrick Paganini and Niels and stuff, I realized afterwards. But it’s just my way of giving a credit to samples that I used.

EKS: I’m really pleased that in America particularly people are reacting very well to Ryan’s album – it seems that people are much more open.

A: Yeah, I was meaning to ask how it was being received.

RM: Well, you see, the record, the whole concept, the style of music, the way it looks, it’s actually made to appeal to the real hardcore fans of that particular kind of music, of dub music, so in Europe, and in England especially, that’s where most of the records have been sold. For that particular market, for the dub market, it’s been quite well received.

A: I understand it’s quite tough to get into a genre like that, to get accepted.

RM: Yeah, sure. But it’s been doing really quite well. But over here I haven’t been able to get any form of distribution through any channels other than the Dots channels like Soleilmoon, so in America it’s just gone primarily to people who are into the Pink Dots. And a lot of those people are coming up and it’s really nice because they seem to like it and it’s obviously a complete surprise and a form of music that they’ve just totally either never heard or are not used to hearing.

A: Yeah, you’re kinda opening them up to something new, which is part of what I thought was neat about it. You’re creating a channel for some of these people to a kind of music I don’t think they normally would listen to.

RM: It’s a very unlikely form of music for someone from the Dots to produce.

EKS: But there’s actually been dubbing in the Dots as well.

EKS + A: Lust For Powder.

EKS: Yeah, things like that. It really was there.

A: Well, you were blatant, Ryan!

EKS: Very.

A: You guys are definitely one of the best shows I’ve seen live – on a par with Bowie…. I’ve got a special place in my heart for Bowie.

EKS: I’ve got a special place in my heart for Bowie, yeah…

RM: I had a spiritual moment about 3 this morning sitting in a parking lot somewhere. I’d just driven all night and I was sort of falling half asleep while Paul {their tour manager} was calling and listening to Space Oddity. Oh, it was really a moment.

EKS + A: Ahhh…Wow!

RM: Yeah.

A: With your popularity increasing, do you feel like you’re kind of on your way?

EKS: Well, on a whole it feels like it’s going up in certain parts of the world. America’s tripled. It’s going up a lot in Eastern Europe, that’s the real surprise.

A: Yeah, well I think they’re a little more open to more experimental forms.

EKS: That’s it, actually, yeah. In Russia, a T.V. crew came and filmed us and it’s on national T.V.

A: That’s great.

EKS: It’s great, but it makes you kind of wonder, “What’s going to happen from that?” I mean, like some people may put their feet through the T.V. screen.

RM: Yeah, like this show I think was too weird for the station, so they knew that they were going to be cancelled after a couple of shows. But they’re very industrious people, you know, they’ll get something else together. They don’t seem to be worried.

A: You always have this fear, when something begins to become really popular, that it’s going to become totally trivialized, you know? It’s like, you want it to become popular, of course, for its sake. But then there’s this part of you that kinda goes, “I don’t know if I want it to become everyone else’s baby too.”

RM: Well, the thing is, the Pink Dots will never become hugely popular because the music is too weird and because we’re not on a major label, so it’s just always going to remain.

A: But might you ever be on a major label?

RM: I doubt it. I really doubt it. Sometimes you sort of have a little bit of this tantalizing fantasy – “Oh gee, major label, lots of promotion and we can make music under better circumstances and be more comfortable,” but then actually when you talk to friends and colleagues and hear of other bands and their major label experiences, you get a big dose of reality and you go “no way.”

EKS: Yeah, I mean like Play It Again Sam in Europe was actually a really big label. But we were, like, ten years with them and they really didn’t do anything for us.

A: I heard they screwed a couple of their bands really bad.

EKS: They weren’t particularly fair to us in the last few years, but they did put things right. I don’t want to spit knives into them or anything like that, but… We’re experimenting this year. We’re not signed to anyone.

A: Soleilmoon seems to be good.

EKS: Soleilmoon is really nice.

RM: Yeah, I think they’re great and Charles is one of the friendliest, most honest people that I’ve ever encountered in the music business.

EKS: Yeah, he’s working harder on the band than actually anybody’s worked on the band before. And the label is growing from it as well and that makes us feel good. Nothing’s too small for them, I like that.

A: Did you guys consider doing anything before the Dots? Did you really consider writing novels, Edward?

EKS: Oh, I’ve thought about it, yeah. I still might. But I’ve always wanted to do this. It’s been a fantasy…sort of lying bed with the covers pulled up and thinking of this.

RM: I’ve been playing in bands starting when I was 13 and that was always my main interest. Even when I was in high school I was just, you know, the band guy, completely focussed on that. There were a couple of times when I had a crisis of faith or something and thought about doing something else, but I can’t escape…I’m a lifer.

EKS: Yeah, I can’t imagine doing anything else.

RM: And the other guys – like Niels has been a musician his entire life and Martijne also started playing in bands when he was a teenager.

EKS: Martijne’s sort of like the quiet powerhouse. Martijne’s a really big part of the writing of the new album. He’s such a good musician and a great powerhouse. I wish more people recognized what he did.

A: I noticed there seems to be an entirely new use of guitar for the L.P.D.’s on the new album. Is he responsible for that?

EKS: Exactly, that’s Martijne.

RM: Yeah, that’s Marty. I mean, we all do the music together, it’s really a band thing and a collective pot that everybody’s throwing ideas into, but a lot of the guitar songs… he came up with those ideas pretty much.

EKS: We just get together in a room and he comes up with a little chord structure, I come up with a lyric, then they all take it there. Then Martijne says ‘why don’t we take it there’, so he takes it there from there and I follow it and it sort of comes together. And then Phil and Ryan also are there and a bit of discussion goes on, and we should all take it there… and it’s like so much a collective.

RM: Yeah, so Marty really has quite a lot to do with the sound of the songs and stuff like that.

A: The new album is making quite a stir.

EKS: Yeah?

A: There’s been a lot of um…like at first, “Oh my god, this is an entirely new sound for the Legendary Pink Dots… are we gonna like it?” You know, that fear of change reaction initially, then everybody started really grabbing it. It’s like it took a little bit of time, but when it grabbed it grabbed very hard. When I heard it I thought it sounded very L.P.D. personally.

EKS + RM: Yeah, I thought it was very L.P.D.

A: I noticed the guitar and I think that’s what people are not used to. But you know, everybody did the same thing when the horn was introduced too. At first everyone was like, “Whoa, are we going to be able to take this?” about the change.

EKS: I hope we can shock people like that every time.

RM: Yeah, I mean that’s what I’m into. I’m into making every album a shock and a challenge and always changing.

EKS: It keeps us sort of alive and discussing the music, and we don’t get bored with it. We want it to be the Pink Dots, it should really be the Pink Dots every time, but should also change. This is an important year for us too because also the Chemical Playschool album was this year. In a way that’s designed to be the ultimate trip double, ‘cos that completes the circle, but we wanted to do it more intensely than in the way we’ve done it before. The Pink Box is maybe it’s nearest relation, but I think it’s way better than the Pink Box.

I think at the moment we’re more into the natural sounds of real instruments. Like in the mid-80’s…and I’m not putting the albums down, but I do find myself very allergic to some of the drum machine sounds. I like the fact that we’re using real drums. That’s what Martijne and Ryan are for. We never could find a drummer for the Pink Dots before.

RM + EKS: We had to do it ourselves.

EKS: And these guys play them, you know, the way they should sound and it still doesn’t sound like a rock band.

A: When you actually listen to music, do you gravitate toward listening to the lyrics or listening to the music or both?

EKS: Actually, mostly I try to ignore the lyrics. I actually hate most people’s lyrics.

A: Now that’s interesting, since your lyrics are such a big part of the L.P.D.’s.

EKS: There are exceptions. The only lyrical band I can really listen to and enjoy now is Current 93, because I think it’s fantastic. Or David Bowie. I mean, I’m glad you mentioned Bowie because he’s one of the lyricists I really admire. And I really admire Lou Reed. And I really like The Beatles actually for lyrics because they always throw these asides in. I mean, it’ll be completely psychedelic and then they’ll mention that the floor needs sweeping and I really love that. It’s very special. When they do take the mystery away, there’s a new mystery they make.

A: Every once in a while you put out an album with some Steven Stapleton influence. Do you think that might happen again in the near future?

EKS: I think it’s possible. He’s a real friend. Steve’s working on a whole bunch of loops that I sent him a few years ago, actually. I’d even forgotten about them and he phoned me and said, “I need more loops.” And I said “More loops? What loops, Steve?” “Yeah, I’m working on these loops.” I think it’s going to be the new Nurse With Wound album. You know, the beauty with working with Steve is we’ll probably never recognize any of them when he’s finished with them, but you know, he’s a genius, you want him to do things with what you’ve done.

A: He was on Malachai and Asylum?

EKS: Well, he wasn’t on Asylum. That’s not particularly true. He actually physically edited the tapes for us because we didn’t know how to glue pieces of tape together. But yeah, with Malachai.

A: What is your favorite imaginary place?

EKS: It’s an island… purple and yellow skies… and a single mountain…black sand.

A: You had a quick answer to that!

EKS: Yeah, I was just talking about it the other night, actually.

A: I want to know yours too, Ryan. Or your favorite philosopher.

RM: My favorite philosopher? Uh…. Edward Ka-Spel?

A: Ahh, that’s not fair!

EKS: That’s not fair, no…

RM: I don’t know… somehow the image of palm trees blowing in the breeze comes to mind.

A: That’s because you’re in California.

RM: Yeah, exactly, that’s why.

A: Well, we’re glad that you like it. You guys can stay here as long as you like.

RM: Oh, I’m enjoying it.

EKS: I know mine has these eternally changing sunsets with triple moons….

A: Triple moons…

EKS: Always triple moons…

A: And why?

EKS: I’ve always loved triple moons.

A: That is a neat idea. I almost hate to ask you this question about the Terminal Kaleidoscope and Sing While You May – I know you’ve been over this 9 million times.

EKS: No no no, it’s alright. I have to say it’s very much a personal thing and I’m not saying it’s the truth or anything like that, but …looking at what’s gone on in my life and the people around me, nothing changes… Like the Terminal Kaleidoscope… It’s viewing the planet kind of as a drowning man with its life flashing before its eyes and everything more and more rapidly dissolving into just a mess of colour and sound, just saturation and overload. This is the time we live in, sort of an intense saturation. And we can either be frightened of that intense saturation or we can cherish it and be glad we live now… Sing While You May….

A: And where do the L.P.D.’s fit into that?

EKS: We make the soundtrack.

A: Is that primarily a Kaspelian vision, Ryan, or do you subscribe to that too?

RM: Well, I suppose that’s a Kaspelian vision, but I’ve sometimes said to people that we make soundtracks for the mind. And then they go, “The Mind? Oh, I haven’t seen that film…”

EKS: From the beginning I always took to the idea that it’s important to try and paint your own soul, you know. And lyrically it’s something where it seems to be so personal, it really opens all the doors, even to the point where you might be embaressed later but you know, do it anyway.

A: So making music is kind of like a catharsis for you.

EKS: It has to be.

A: Do you guys practice any kind of magic or any religious or mystical beliefs?

EKS + RM: No.

RM: No, there’s no esoteric or mystical stuff going down.

EKS: I actually really try and avoid any kind of religious beliefs, because I believe everything is inside and rituals should be personal, they should come from within.

A: Would you call that a certain kind of personal mysticism then?

EKS: I’m not sure if mysticism is the right word. I mean, there are certain things that I do, certain things I go through, I don’t know why I go through them.

RM: And I think everyone in the band sort of follows their own particular vision or personal mysticism pretty much, whatever form that it might take.

EKS: Sometimes you find that, you know, coincidentally you do relate to other people’s ideas and that surprises you.

A: Anything else you would like to say to the world in an interview?

EKS: Oh, I always have trouble with that question.

A: Any final words?

EKS: Hopefully not final, we’d like to keep going really.

***

THE L.A. SHOW REVIEW

I feel sorry for anyone who has not had the pleasure of attending a Legendary Pink Dots show. I’m so serious about this that I brought my mother to this one – she loved them, of course. There is literally nothing quite like an L.P.D. concert, and the L.A. show at the Roxy was no exception.

The experience was wonderful, as usual, despite too much smoke and an overabundance of slightly pushy gothy creatures all shoving for a closer look or for a chance to stroke vocalist Edward Ka-Spel’s bare feet. The sound created by the bass guitar had an intensity of 1 watts/meters squared. The responsible musician, bassist/percussionist Ryan Moore, was striking the string with a force of 226N. The power of the amplifier that produced the sound was 11, 309.7 newtons. In other words, the sound was really intense – but that didn’t stop the music from being beautiful.

Somehow these average looking, yet very talented guys manage to take you into another dimension – deeper into yourself perhaps – and although the view from within can be frightening, it is also pure addictive ecstasy. They are somehow able to depose that all-pervading human desire to always be “elsewhere,” bringing the audience purely into the now and simultaneously suspending all concept of time. It doesn’t even hurt to stand for two hours – well, not until the concert is over, anyway. It is pure escapism, but by a very unlikely route – they enable you to escape yourself by thrusting you firmly into yourself.

When Ka-Spel shuffles onto the stage in his torn and tattered robe, wearing a dour expression on his bespeckled Puckish face as though he carries the dilemmas of the world on his sagging shoulders, the crowd is instantly moved to silence. Everyone is enraptured as he sings in a velvety soft, yet embittered voice, “I want to believe in the nobility of the human spirit… I want to believe that the horrors I see and the horrors I hear about are simply the last cries of the dying spectre that haunted our fragile bones for just too long… I want to believe that we will peel away the masks with which we frighten each other… I want to believe all of these things and more, but you caught me at a bad moment and I can’t.” And when he entreats, as in the title of one song, “Remember Me This Way,” he can be assured that everyone will.

seera@netcom.com AsYlem Magazine – An Occult, musical, atmospheric storehouse of things not concerning the mundane world

An interview with Edward Ka-spel of THE LEGENDARY PINK DOTS

at the 9:30 Club Washington, D.C. November 2, 1995

Edward Ka-spel cast his spell on the audience with a two-hour emotion-packed set of songs from his extremely prolific history with The Legendary Pink Dots, focussing mainly on songs from the new album, From Here You’ll Watch the World Go By, and ending on a fever pitch with “Premonition 13” from The Legendary Pink Box (1989). Edward Ka-spel’s discography is 37 pages in length, divided into 5 major categories: (1) The Legendary Pink Dots (2) Edward Ka-spel solo material (3) The Tear Garden (4) Mimir (5) other projects. The new album appears to be their 19th major album, not counting cassette-only releases and material that was re-released later as part of other albums. They had completed the European leg of the tour, and were now embarking on the North American part, to end in Vancouver right at Christmas time, where they would be joining cEvin Key (ex-Skinny Puppy/Download) to work on their side project collaboration, The Tear Garden, only to be off on another tour (Download/The Tear Garden). A long-time vegetarian, he was finishing off a slice of pizza as I began by reading him an excerpt from his own liner notes from Island of Jewels (1986). Composed nine years ago, he visibly enjoyed hearing his words again. And what a bit of synchronicity that at that very moment there was but one slice of pizza remaining on that tray…

And God said, “I’m sick of fucking harps.” She sipped her apple juice, visibly agitated, clouds of steam funnelling out from her ears.

“You sit on those clouds day in, day out plucking those things….endlessly chirping on about how glorious I am. The same fucking songs, the same boring trite little poems, the same bland, cherubic expression on your faces – I am sick of it. I want passion! I want noise! God damn it, I want something with a bit of SOUL!”

And lo, the Angel Gabriel placed The Legendary Pink Dots hot new platter, Island of Jewels on the holy turntable.

“Yowza!” said God.

She was clearly excited; she furiously tied knots in her invisible beard; her head rocked back and forth with the irresistible beat.

“Who are these gods? Who is responsible for those neat little melodies, those infectious rhythms, those splendid words?”

Gabriel whispered the answer, and God rose from her throne, raised an infinite number of arms and roared – causing the very fabric of heaven to quake, earthly cries to crumble, tides to rise like writhing green cliffs advancing on the twitching tower flames.

And God said, “The Legendary Pink Dots alone will bring my message to the wretched Earth. They alone will tell of the cataclysm to come. They alone will show the way to a new Eden!”

And a messenger of God materialized in an untidy, squalid squatted house in Amsterdam where The Legendary Pink Dots were drawing straws to find out who had the right to eat the last portion of a takeaway pizza.

Reverently the messenger delivered his tidings, and the six heads looked upward, and as one, they said “We’ll think about it…”

When did you first become interested in music?

Early in the 70’s, really… when there was a lot of interesting German bands around making extremely freaky, psychedelic music.

What did you listen to back then?

Mostly bands like Can, Faust, Magma. Very obscure, eccentric European bands.

What do you listen to now?

Same thing, really (laughs). There’s a lot of nice, new bands – best band I’ve heard recently, which is completely new, is a band called Tortoise from Chicago. Really impressed me, very much…

What books do you like to read?

I don’t get to read very much – not as much as I’d wish. My favorite author is probably Harlan Ellison.

Can you describe the evolution of The Legendary Pink Dots?

A kind of directed chaos…

From the beginning?

From the beginning.

Have there been changes?

Masses of changes, yeah… in the personnel. There’s been like 20 people run through the Pink Dots. The current band has been together for the last four years… playing very solidly together.

How has the change in people coming in and out of the Pink Dots affected the music?

Some of the people have affected it more than others. Like Patrick, our old violin player, left and obviously created quite a strong change in the music. We didn’t want to replace Patrick with another violin player, because Patrick wasn’t any violin player. And then Niels joined with horns and flute and added a new element to the music that really gave a nice breath of fresh air. As recently as last year we changed everything again, even though the lineup was very stable then, in that we started using live drums for the first time, but we kept it within the band as well – Martijn and Ryan both play the drums and both play the bass, given times when one of them is on the drums and Martijn also plays the guitar – so it’s like a revolving instrumentation, which makes life a lot more interesting and very untraditional in the ways of bands.

What made you decide to bring in certain people with other instruments? Is it based on chemistry you had with the people, or were you looking for a different musical texture?

You connect with people as you meet them, you like them, you understand what they’re doing…

…and then whatever instrument they happen to play becomes part of the Pink Dots?

Sure. I mean everybody tends to put in their own vision to make it a united one.

So are you the thread that binds it all together?

Maybe.

Tell me about the Premonition pieces… how are they connected?

Only in the way the mood tends to be in the Premonition pieces. Again, it’s a thing of intuition – what is a Premonition piece and what is not.

So a song evolves – it has a certain feeling or mood to it and becomes a Premonition piece?

That’s right… yeah.

Are you currently involved with The Tear Garden?

Yes. Recording a new one in December. Vancouver. Probably tour it as well this time.

Were you very close to Dwayne (Goettel/recently deceased member of The Tear Garden and ex-Skinny Puppy)?

Yeah. He was a great friend. A really great friend. And a good guy as well.

Any personal recollections of Dwayne you’d like to share?

Just that he was one of the most sunniest, funniest and most intelligent and sensitive human beings I’ve come acrossed. The world’s a much sadder place without him…

Where in the Universe do you see The Legendary Pink Dots?

Probably in a remote outpost on the Planet Sponge.

The Planet Sponge?

It’s very hard to walk on the Planet Sponge because you sink into it and water tends to spurt out into the atmosphere and form dense violet clouds. Everything is kind of violet on the Planet Sponge.

Anything else about the Planet Sponge you’d like to share with us?

They play golf a lot on the Planet Sponge. But I never much cared for golf.

Kind of a natural thing to do there.

Yeah…with all those holes.

Do people live there?

No. They just visit there for golfing holidays.

So it’s a tourist trap?

It is a tourist trap. Especially if you get sucked into one of the BIG holes.

And you’re the local band?

Oh, we are the local band… yeah. We inhabit the innermost chamber of the Planet Sponge.

So are YOU the official lounge lizard for the golf tournament crowd?

Like it or not, we probably are. But I don’t think the tourists like us very much. They why we keep directing them to the BIG holes.

So tell me about your own personal spiritual journey.

You’ve got to find out about that through the music, really. Best to listen, rather than ask me about it, because it’s all there.

Would you say that that’s the “anchor” for your music?

I suppose it is for me, yeah. You know, it’s all quite personal. Especially the new album, it’s very personal… the lyrics…

Tell me about your most interesting show.

I think that for me, the most interesting show was in Victoria on the island of Vancouver. It began in a very bizarre way, in that we were all enjoying a day off in Vancouver thinking that the show was actually the next day. And they the agent phoned and said, “No, it’s not tomorrow, it’s today – we made a mistake!” Various Pink Dots were in the park, various Pink Dots were off shopping, but somehow, we all managed to get together at about 6:00 in the evening, and then the club was phoning, “Please come, please come…” We got on the ferry at around 8:00 and eventually we got there at 11:30 at night when the opening band was already playing. There were about 70 or 80 people in the club. It was like a restaurant. Instead of a stage, I had a whole floor to enjoy. And everybody was sitting at tables quite far away from the stage. So I tended to irritate them as I usually do, like Frank Sinatra on acid or something like that. But there was one guy who decided to sit right in front of the stage, dressed as a lumberjack, who would sometimes roll over on his back laughing, kicking his feet in the air. I think he’d been allowed out from the local asylum. But he was great – really, really great. It totally felt like we were the house band in Twin Peaks, which appealed to me very, very much. That was certainly the most interesting show we’ve played, I think. There’s been others. But usually it’s great glories or great disasters, but this one was certainly great interest. I liked being the house band in Twin Peaks. Somehow, there is a poetic logic to that.

So the lumberjack part of his attire contributed to that?

Absolutely. It wouldn’t have been the same show without him.

Did you thank him at the end?

Oh, absolutely. I talked to him quite frequently during the show.

Tell me about your absolute worst show.

Northhampton. Horrible. It was a festival. There was Attrition, who are great friends of ours, In The Nursery, Meat Beat Manifesto and us. It was really nice with Attrition – I can honestly say they are good friends – we hung out together, but I wish I could say the same of the other bands. We ended up being reduced from being allowed to play for 1 1/2 hours, which we normally play, to 45 minutes. After 35 minutes, members of the crew of Meat Beat Manifesto started running onto the stage telling us to stop while another guy ran to the mixing desk to pull down the slides. And we went kind of berserk and tried to assassinate the audience and just about anybody that was there. It ended up very, very insane.

…and The Meat Beat people?

The band was really okay – it was the crew. We didn’t fit, actually, we didn’t fit at all. We were way too freaky for the audience. There were a few hard core Pink Dots people but most of the people just looked like, “What’s going on – don’t understand – let’s get as far to the back as possible.” We could have come from a different planet.

There was another show I can think of, back in ’88 or’87. We played in a place called Ravensburg in Germany. It had been a time of incredible hell. Some members of the band were going kind of insane, doing very strange things. We got to Ravensburg at 9:00 in the evening, having driven from Italy and the entire crowd was of course there because we were due to play at 8:00.

The club owner was a very mellow, nice guy, and he said, “well, although the whole crowd’s here, take it easy – have a coffee first.” We had a coffee and then he said, “Now it’s time to unload.” The keys were still in the van. We had to break open the van to get the gear out. We ended up setting up in front of an audience in which everybody stood quite a few rows away from us, keeping a distance from the stage, apart from one girl, who sat RIGHT IN FRONT of the microphone, away from everybody else and sort of STARING AT ME right through the show, which is very disturbing, because she looked very psychotic, and she turned out to be later.

And we still played like hell, and at the end, the audience just went, “YAH”, and then it was complete silence. And we came off thinking, “Well, they hated it.” And then the promoter ran up to us and said, “They loved it.” We said, “Yeah, but they’re not making any sounds…” He said, “But they haven’t left yet. That means they love it.” So we went back, did an encore, and the audience went, “YAH.” And then they left. That was a very strange show.

So you just couldn’t relate?

No. But sometimes you get audiences like that. Not quite as extreme as that. Swedish audiences can be a real problem. They get incredibly drunk and they tend to turn into Vikings. And MEAN Vikings as well. You know – just sailed to your show, intent on pillaging the club including the band. But it’s better these days.

What about American audiences?

Usually very appreciative. You always get the odd heckler. I don’t mind the odd heckler.

The American odd heckler is nothing compared to the European Psycho.

Yeah. The European Psycho can be a real problem sometimes. I’ve been attacked on stage once by someone shouting my own lyrics back at me.

Where was this?

Norway. And there was a show in North Germany where a guy was hammering his fists on the front of the stage, shouting about how much he hated me. And I have no idea why – I’ve never quite worked it out. There’s quite a few obsessive people around as well. They send some very strange letters and follow us around a lot.

So do you attract weirdos?

I think we attract more weirdos than the average band. Some of them can be kind of charming as well. Quite a degree of quite obsessive girls, which is kind of nice.

Insane girls?

I’ve always kind of liked insane girls (laughter). They’re delightful and colorful. Not if they’re completely insane, like the girl in Ravensburg… she found out my address…

And did she show up at your house?

…she showed up at my house…I was there… But I’m not going to go into that story…

The Legendary Pink Dots 
by Squid for Rational Alternative Digital (RAD) Cyberzine

Edward Ka-Spel of the Legendary Pink Dots was very obliging to spend some time chatting with us before an amazing recent show. He was personable and witty. The odd thing was that the robe he was wearing blended exactly into the fabric of the booth where he sat. Just like a chameleon, he became one with his surroundings and one with his admirers, spending a good two hours indulging us, like friends.

Before turning on the recorder, we found that Ed’s birthday is January 23 and that the band acquired their name from a spot-causing disease which came out of a three hundredyear old organ they found and used for their early recordings. Well, the spots from this disease formed the exact shape of the legendary King Arthur on one of the band members.This was also the precise time when they were trying to come up with a name for themselves, and somebody noticed what legendary form these pink dots took, and the rest is…

Ed:

I was lying completely.

RAD:

You were lying completely? Well tell us another good one! So how did you really get your name?

Ed:

The thing is, it’s not really known generally that the Legendary Pink Dots — it’s assumed that we started in London — actually, we came from a very small hamlet in Moldavia, which of course didn’t have any street-lamps so it was dark all the time. But, as the population in this small hamlet of Moldavia evolved, they developed their own personal lights to light the streets — which were fluorescent pink lights.

It was so remote, this hamlet in Moldavia, that very few people would ever find it. One day–you know, the story got around, of course, but nobody really believed it was true–some hitchhikers from the furthest reaches of Georgia sort of stumbled onto this hamlet in Moldavia and saw the locals walking around with these fluorescent pink spot sall over their faces and finally someone said, “Those are the legendary pink dots!” And we were just rehearsing in a room nearby, and, that’s how we got the name.

RAD:

Wow, so you used to have those dots, but you don’t anymore?

Ed:

As soon as you left the perimeters of the village, they just dropped off, ’cause of the street-lamps.

RAD:

And that is how you got your name.

Ed:

I always like to make up these fantastic stories, ’cause you know, I thought the real story about street-lamps in Moldavia was kind of a bit boring.

RAD:

Yeah, it was. The one you told earlier was a lot more interesting. So you’re not from London, then, like people thought.

Ed:

No, we’re from Moldavia. It’s a very small corner of Moldavia where everybody speaks English. It’s got a certain Moldavian dialect, but it’s definitely English.

RAD:

Can you still speak with that dialect?

Ed:

Um, not really; I’ve forgotten over the years.

RAD:

That’s too bad. So then, after that, did the band move to the Netherlands?

Ed:

Well, first of all, we walked to London. It took several years. We spent a few years in London and finally moved over to Holland in 1984.

RAD:

So, why do you have the motto–often written inside your albums–“Sing While You May”?

Ed:

It has to do with a personal philosophy that if you compare the planet to a drowning man, if you would just look at the acceleration of the events in the last hundred years, it’s as if the planet sees its entire life flashing before its eyes, before it might just go into overload and saturation. This is such a significant time for the planet, such a significant time to really, I’d say, cherish …

RAD:

I was curious about your involvement in some of your other side projects. I read an interview with Christoph Heemann. Is there a collaboration between you and Christoph coming out soon on the Streamline label?

Ed:

There’s the “Khataclimici China Doll.” There’s a lot of extra material on it, about half an hour’s worth. They were pieces I’ve made that I handed over to Christoph and just said, “Do what you will with them.” I really liked what he did with them.

RAD:

So he’s reworking them?

Ed:

No, just making his own treatment.

RAD:

I read a couple years ago about you doing some work with Steven Stapleton for a project.

Ed:

Steve is currently working with some stuff that I sent him a couple years ago. It will be ready quite soon.

RAD:

One thing I like about the Pink Dots and your solo work, is that it creates a world that doesn’t really exist, yet seems so real. Do you feel like you’ve created a world that just exists in your imagination?

Ed:

It depends on your definition of reality.

RAD:

What’s your definition of reality?

Ed:

I don’t have one. I’ve lost all grasp of what reality actually is.

RAD:

Maybe there isn’t one. What do you feel your solo releases allow you to do that you don’t get to do as the LPD?

Ed:

They allow me to be a megalomaniac. And I don’t want to be a megalomaniac with the Pink Dots, because we’re a band. I’m glad it’s a band, and all members have input. But I can be a megalomaniac with myself.

RAD:

So do you feel like you lose some control as the LPD?

Ed:

I never really wanted to be in control, because how can that be a positive effect?

RAD:

The Mimir project — is that an ongoing project? How do those sessions work?

Ed:

That was recorded in a weekend.

RAD:

What’s behind Mimir? What’s the working criteria?

Ed:

Improvisation. But it’s Christoph’s interpretation of that improvisation. The second CD — when Phil and I had heard it — it had been recorded a while before, but we just couldn’t think where these pieces had come from, but there we were playing them, and it was Christoph’s skill in editing and processing.

RAD:

The “Shadow Weaver” projects, for some reason — I made a very strong connection between those and the Asylum period.

Ed:

So did I. Asylum was a very, very hard time for the band. We almost split up. We were almost murdered by this manager at the time who literally broke us. And people in the band were acting real strangely. I was living on a floor. I mean, it was a really, really hard time. And so when we recorded that album, we threw a terror ruse… “Shadow Weaver” is the first album we recorded after the death of Bob, our guitar player. It was an incredibly sad time — and, especially on number one — both were recorded parallel. “Shadow Weaver 1” has really just a very desolate sense.

RAD:

So there have been high points and low points.

Ed:

Sure. “Maria Dimension” was a very high point. There are always tensions, but we’re always friends, as well. It’s what keeps it alive.

RAD:

So what’s the mood for “From Here You’ll Watch the World Go By?”

Ed:

I can’t say, really.

RAD:

To me, it seems lighter.

Ed:

You’ve got to get into the lyrics. It’s a shame the lyrics weren’t put into the work more…

RAD:

Are there things about this album that you think should be different?

Ed:

Oh, there are always things — different mixes. The song “Friend”, which is really one of my favorites from the album, we could play it live and it’s much better. Some of these things we’ve only played once.

RAD:

Do you get a vacation after this tour?

Ed:

I’ve managed four beautiful days on an island in North Holland — no phone, no cars, no TV sets.

RAD:

Now is Elke your wife? Girlfriend? Elke Skelter — will she be on that island?

Ed:

She’s in Berlin. We’ve split.

RAD:

In which city do you end this tour?

Ed:

Mexico City.

RAD:

Do you have a lot of fans there?

Ed:

I thought we had about ten or eleven. Maybe we’ll be surprised. It’s really shocking to play Mexico. I’m serious, I’m not joking. I know we don’t sell too many CD’s in Mexico.

RAD:

Oh, I was wondering, now, on a lot of your albums, there are song titles or little phrases that are in some strange language. Can you tell us what that is?

Ed:

Ah, it’s just me being stupid, really.

RAD:

So it’s all just made up!

Ed:

It’s made up. It’s what you read into it.

At this moment, the club was bombarded with very loud music, so we could not record anything further, but Ed stayed to chat with us about being a vegetarian and to tell what his mindset was behind certain Pink Dots songs. (For example, “The Plasma Twins” –“something very sick!”) Nils Van Hornblower, the Dutchman of the band, came over to us, in a fabulous blue velvet shirt, and offered everyone fireball candies. And despite great fatigue, the Legendary Pink Dots gave their all this night. The crowd demanded encores, so they did three. During one, Ed told the funniest tale about Horatio the cockroach, recordings of which may be available by contacting Squid here at RAD. In a final, chaotic blow-out at the end of the last encore, Nils leapt into the audience with his saxophone and traveled the entire venue, blasting into people’s faces. What an experience.

LPD Interview, 10/27/95, Cleveland Ohio

The following is a transcription of an interview I conducted with Edward Ka-Spel when the Dots played in Cleveland a few weeks ago.

The circumstances of the interview were rather a surprise — I had actually intended to interview a friend (not connected with the Dots) at the show, and had asked the bouncers if it was alright if I brought a tape recorder in. The query climbed its way up the chain of authority, and got mangled on the way to where it became a query to interview the Dots themselves. But Edward said Yes to it, so I suddenly had ten minutes to think up what to ask a band I’d been listening to for the last seven years or so!

In spite of my lack of any preparation, I think it went fairly well. I tried to shy away from “where does your band name come from” questions in favor of less surface oriented ones. Hopefully you’ll also be pleased with the results.

– Mark G., O.P. [Original Prankster]

LEGENDARY PINK DOTS INTERVIEW October 27, 1995 @ The Phantasy, Cleveland

ECC: This is really fairly surprising because I had really just asked one of the bouncers… well, I wanted to interview somebody else, a friend of mine here who I interviewed before but lost the tape and I was simply asking if I could bring the tape recorder in to interview him and they misunderstood and thought that I wanted to interview you — but I thought, well, why not? So… they let me. And here I am! So I hope you don’t mind the extra interview…

EKS: No, not at all.

ECC: Great. It’s really a great opportunity too, because I have been listening to your music for a long time and while I hadn’t expected to [interview you], it’s really a great pleasure to. I hope you don’t mind if this seems a bit off the top of my head, but that’s exactly what it is. The destination for this interview: I do a lot of writing on the Internet, and I don’t know if you get to use it much at all…

EKS: …we’re not on the Internet, not as a band. There’s the Cloud-Zero, but that’s run by someone in Montreal — er, Ottowa…

ECC: Would you happen to know who? Is that Greg Clow… [Sorry Alan; shoulda known better… Edward’s awe-striking aura, don’tcha know]

EKS: Greg’s very busy with it, but it’s Alan Ezust who set it up.

ECC: I guess I should probably ask you — both you and I will be appearing on a compilation he’s putting together, and he says you’re a bit delinquent in getting your submission to him! [You’re welcome, Greg. ]

KS: Oh, yeah, well… that’s the deal with… the general turbulance in my life…

ECC: I’m sure he would’ve hammered me if I hadn’t asked you. Alright, let’s start a little ways back. I’ve got many things you’ve been involved with, both on CD, record, and tape. Things go way back, quite a ways back, even to a number of Staaltape releases on cassette, things like that. Did you start out as a tape trader? As one of the cassette culture?

EKS: I’ve never really looked at it as cassette culture, really. We made cassettes in the very early days because that’s all we could afford to do. I’ve always believed that it doesn’t really matter what the format is, that something appears… it’s all ultimately plastic. But it’s the music that’s on it… we released, a few years ago now, Four Days… but I’ve really nothing against it at all. Y’know, it’s… just down to what we have to say. How it comes out is irrelevent.

ECC: Has what you’ve had to say changed from those early days until now?

EKS: Probably — because we all change.

ECC: How have you changed?

EKS: Hopefully I’ve grown a bit. I couldn’t say from the inside.

ECC: Do you have a particular idea or concept that you think was best expressed through your music? One particular thing you’ve been best able to express?

EKS: Um…it changes. I always liked thinking that the most extreme thing you could ever do is to paint your own soul, in glorious detail, even if it embarasses you and makes you extremely vulnerable. I suppose there are always things people like to keep hidden. I don’t particularly wish to hide everything; I wish to try to reveal it… that’s in the lyrics.

ECC: The lyrics have always normally seemed to deal in more of an allegorical way of revealing yourself.

EKS: They have their twists and turns.

ECC: Do you use other ways to reveal yourself as an artist? Do you paint?

EKS: Naw, I can’t paint at all, really. I collage… and I write, and do a little written word.

ECC: Do you send those to other publications?

EKS: No, I usually just keep that all under the Pink Dots umbrella.

ECC: How have you kept that division between your solo work and the Pink Dots’ work?

EKS: Well, the Pink Dots is very much a band. It’s not me, and a few musicians surrounding me, it’s a band where everybody has a say and everybody speaks in a direction. It’s a dynamic moving collective, and I think that’s very good. I do have a need in me to do things very rigidly as well my way, and the only vehicle for that is a solo career running parallel with the Pink Dots. Shouldn’t get in the way of the Pink Dots, the Pink Dots is still more important I think. But it’s a basic need in me.

ECC: You said the Pink Dots were more important. In what ways are they more important than your solo stuff?

EKS: Well… It’s not such a one-dimensional view… there are other views coming in, and sometimes I think strength can be seen in numbers, numbers of ideas.

ECC: But you’re implying that your own work is one-dimensional?

EKS: I think so, yeah…! I mean, maybe that’s not the right term, but it’s very much a solo trip. I don’t expect everybody to connect with it, because it can be very self- indulgent. But I need to do it.

ECC: To express your inner self?

EKS: Sure. I need it.

ECC: Just so I can understand a little more: is the touring Pink Dots the same as the “at-home” Pink Dots?

EKS: Yes.

ECC: What are the current members.

EKS: There’s Neils on the saxaphones, flutes, instruments; Phil, who was there from the beginning on keyboards; Martyn plays guitars, drums; and Ryan on bass guitar and drums as well. They switch bass… a bit of switching of instruments tends to go on these days in the Pink Dots’ life.

ECC: Have you had trouble translating your studio Pink Dots to the travelling Pink Dots?

EKS: I always feel a bit disappointed with the album after we play live for a while, because live it tends to really spread its wings.

ECC: You feel there’s more energy at a live show?

EKS: We tend to be very live, yeah. Used to be the other way ’round, but it’s very strong now.

ECC: Do you play at home very often, or do you usually just play on tour?

EKS: We play very rarely in Holland, in fact. It’s not our best country at all. Our best places tend to be… well, America goes well… but um, odd countries, like the Czech Republic, and Poland, and Russia… we do very well in these countries.

ECC: Why do you suppose that is?

EKS: Um… I don’t really know… I really don’t know! It just seems to strike a chord with people there.

ECC: Do you think what you do is very “European”?

EKS: I don’t think it can really be stamped with any particular nationality at all. I wouldn’t want it to be either.

ECC: You’ve had some difficulty, or at least I’ve heard stories that you have, in getting into the US to play.

EKS: That was only one year, actually. This is our fourth time.

ECC: When was the last time?

EKS: Two years ago.

ECC: I didn’t realize it was so recent.

EKS: Yeah, we didn’t play in Ohio at all.

ECC: I’m from Columbus, which is in the middle of Ohio, and just about any tour skips Columbus in favor of Cleveland or Cincinnati.

EKS: I think I played in Columbus once… with Skinny Puppy…

ECC: Yes, I was at that show actually — you opened solo for that. It was a fun show! Long time ago too… Well, let me just close by asking you what’s in future both for the Dots and for you as a solo artist.

EKS: Well, after we finish the tour we’ll start a new recording… yes… always hard to talk about the future…going to a few exotic countries next year… going to Mexico this tour… go to Russia for the first time next year… yeah, I mean, it’ll just keep winding it’s unique little path.

ECC: What do you see more as the psychology, spiritual, or expressional future of both projects?

EKS: Well… they simply go the way they go. I wouldn’t wish to give it back. Every album is made in the particular mood within the band, and it’s very truthful that it doesn’t pay any attention to outside influences at all; what may be fashionable or popular in the lands.

ECC: It continues on as a self-fulfilling system.

EKS: Absolutely. That’s the only way.

ECC: I have one last question. Why do you wear sunglasses all the time?

EKS: They’re not sunglasses.

ECC: What are they?

EKS: They’re real glasses!

ECC: They’re shaded.

KS: Um… I just like them that way!

ecc@gnu.ai.mit.edu The Evolution Control Committee

TEARGARDEN: White Coats and Haloes Music From the Empty Quarter #9

by Leigh Neville

Edward Ka-Spel, founder of the truly Legendary Pink Dots, is a living legend in much the same way as his contemporaries Steve Stapleton or Peter Christopherson. Leading off way back in 1981, with the self-released ‘Chemical Playschool’ and ‘Kleine Krieg’ cassettes, the Pink Dots have become one of the most respected purveyors of uncompromising sound in the post-industrial areas, releasing a huge number of albums on a slew of labels. Even Edward has difficulty stating exactly how many releases LPD have been responsible for. Sandwiched amongst the LPD productions are Edward’s solo efforts (the latest, a compilation ‘Lyvv China Doll‘ comprised of out-takes and rarities, is out through Amsterdam’s Staalplaat), and the Tear Garden project with Cevin Key of Skinny Puppy.

The genius of the Tear Garden was sparked even before the formation of Skinny Puppy in 1983, Edward explained over a long distance line from his and LPD’s home in the rural region of the Netherlands border.

“Cevin was actually a penpal who’d wrote to me, interested in the band and the early albums and tapes. That was about four years before I actually met him.”

“It just happened that I fixed these solo shows in Vancouver and Seattle, and I went over. Cevin heard about them and he asked me to write some lyrics for an existing Skinny Puppy instrumental which became ‘The Centre Bullet’ (featured on Puppy’s ‘Bites’). I wrote the lyrics on the plane going over, and when I got into Vancouver we went into the studio together which worked very well,” Edward said.

“So the idea became a mini-album to see what else we could come up with, and that was recorded within three or four days. Actually, that’s not unusual since ‘Tired Eyes Slowly Burning’ was recorded in about ten days. That was a year later in ’87 because I went on tour with Skinny Puppy around America.”

By this time Nettwerk of Vancouver B.C. had signed The Tear Garden and had released both the album and EP. The Pink Dots’ current label, Play It Again Sam of Brussels, licensed the material for the European market, bringing it to both LPD and Puppy fans across the continent. The second album was a long time in coming however.

“Tear Garden was kinda on ice for a few years after that because Skinny Puppy and the Pink Dots were both very busy. But the opportunity to record another one came up in 1991 (‘The Last Man to Fly’) because the Pink Dots were doing a tour in Vancouver and with the whole of the Pink Dots coming to Vancouver and Cevin, Dwayne, Rave (David Oglivie) being there, it actually turned into an amalgamation of both bands. That’s also when we first met Ryan (Moore), who now plays with the Pink Dots, who was working with Cevin on Hilt, so it was all very incestuous!” he laughed.

“Ryan worked on ‘The Last Man to Fly’ and then flew to Vancouver to join the Pink Dots! But anyway, to cut a long story short the latest Tear Garden, the compilation ‘Bouquet of Black Orchids’ was simply Play It Again Sam wanting to put out a ‘best of’ which didn’t contain much of ‘The Last Man to Fly’ because that itself was quite a new album. I suppose I picked all my favourites, it’s really very listenable.”

‘Bouquet of Black Orchids’ brings together a wide range of the finest numbers from the Tear Garden. From the very early ‘Ophelia,’ ‘The Centre Bullet,’ ‘Oo Ee Oo’ and ‘Tear Garden’ (which includes a credit to Wilhelm Schroeder a.k.a. Bill Leeb), to tracks like ‘Sheila Likes the Rodeo’ and ‘Blobbo’; unreleased material from ‘The Last Man…’ sessions to the epic ‘You and Me and Rainbows,’ a sixteen-minute marathon. Duetting (?) with Puppy’s Ogre, it is a pure sensory experience.

“‘You and Me and Rainbows’ was basically written during the Skinny Puppy tour in America. I was very, very far away from home and I was doing solo shows in front of a thousand people which was a very disorientating experience. The thousand people hadn’t shown up to see me but Skinny Puppy I might add!”

“In some ways it hadn’t been the best tour but it was still enjoyable. ‘You and Me and Rainbows’ though is about my first LSD trip, kind of documenting… Ogre’s vocals are stunning. He came to me and Cevin and wanted to be involved so he did the hard, bad trip verse. We just went back to back and recorded it. I like him very, very much and he’s a really talented person. ‘You and Me and Rainbows’ is actually one of my favourites as well!!” he added.

Another unusual but equally brilliant track which is featured on both ‘Last Man…’ and ‘Bouquet…’ is ‘White Coats and Haloes.’ The song, like much of Tear Garden and indeed LPD is a very emotional, very vivid picture. Constructed by a wall of radio transmission-like fuzz with only the occasional sample, Edward’s unique vocals, and some beautiful acoustic guitar, it is a genuine masterpiece.

“That was myself and Rave one night recording. He was strumming these chords and I said, ‘What are those? I like them’ and suddenly there was a song there. Actually we forgot about it for quite a while until one very relaxed night in the studio, it was one of the almost one-take songs. I already had the lyrics but they fitted perfectly.”

“That month doing ‘The Last Man to Fly’ was just a very creative month. You’re in this mode that you’re writing maybe three or four sets of lyrics a day. There were many, many improvisations, I mean I think in total there was about five hours of recordings, much of it just played off hand,” Edward said.

The intensely personal lyricisms of Ka-Spel have always held mystery and strange wonder as he creates worlds with his words.

“It’s very hard to explain them properly, they come from having my antennae up and just picking up on things around me and interpreting them. They are very personal I suppose…”

Ka-Spel left his native England during the late eighties and now resides permanently in Holland, along with the rest of the band, a situation he finds very conductive.

“All the band lives here, there’s myself and Phil originally both from England, Ryan’s living down the road in another village, Martijn’s living in a caravan, we’re all in the same area. We’re very close that way, it really helps.”

Further recordings as The Tear Garden are planned and Cevin Key has just made a guest appearance on the new LPD album, but Ka-Spel has little hope for a Tear Garden tour.

“There’s a will there, we talk about it all the time but with Skinny Puppy recording up to their eyeballs and with the Pink Dots tour coming, which could easily stretch to five or six months, it’d be very hard to find the time. But Tear Garden will definitely be continuing because it’s so much fun to do. In a perfect world I’d love to tour with Skinny Puppy as the Pink Dots because I love Skinny Puppy’s music. I think ‘Last Rights’ is one of the finest albums of the last few years. They just get better and better. They’re so much further than any of the bands they’ve been classed with, they have an emotional edge which sets them apart. There’s a few too many cyborgs out there for my liking!”

A common thread between the Legendary Pink Dots, The Tear Garden, and Skinny Puppy is their collective ability to avoid simplistic categorisation.

“Skinny Puppy are way above it, not ‘industrial’; you can’t categorise a band like Puppy. People try, I mean people try to categorise the Pink Dots and usually I’m horrified! We read a review of Tear Garden in Option today and although it was reasonably positive it still made me want to vomit! It was like he wanted to hate it but found that he liked it and he didn’t want to like it, and it was all in this extremely condescending tone… If I’d had a psychic machine gun…”

“For me a successful album is a journey. It’s a lot of colours, really intense, deep moods. We don’t really consider whether people will like it, it rarely enters into it, we just try to please ourselves,” he explained.

“Music is about emotion – crying, laughing, feeling that little touch of fear, feeling elation… All of those emotions play their part in your life so if you’re going to be true to your music they should play a part in the music too. For me, that is music, it’s an emotional experience. If it doesn’t touch you in some way, be it positive, negative, or whatever, then that piece of music doesn’t work. All my favourite bands are ‘character’ bands, with someone who is larger than life. Maybe it’s someone you think that you don’t like but that doesn’t matter. It’s a strange time we live in because there’s less and less bands with strong characters around. Take Current 93 for instance, there’s such a character there which I really appreciate. But try and think of ten bands with real characters today!”

Edward Ka-Spel, though he would never admit it, is one of those few true characters left. Whether it be Tear Garden, or Legendary Pink Dots, he is unique because he, and his projects, ARE different.

(appeared in: Music From the Empty Quarter #9, March 1994)